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Follica Co-Founder and Team Find New Clues About Male Baldness

Xconomy Boston — 

Hold on to your toupees. Scientists have spotted a trend in scalp samples from men with pattern baldness that could lead to a new way to treat hair-loss. The discovery hits close to home for Follica, a startup focused on hair-loss treatments, whose scientific co-founder was one of the main researchers behind the new findings.

The new research found that men with pattern baldness have plenty of hair follicle stem cells in their scalps. This might mean that the stem cells, important to hair follicle development, need to be activated in some way to treat baldness. George Cotsarelis, a dermatologist from the University of Pennsylvania and co-founder of Follica, co-authored a paper on the research released today from the Journal of Clinical Investigation. Follica itself did not participate in the research.

Follica CEO William Ju says that the findings in the paper are in line with the rationale for the company’s experimental device and drug treatment for baldness. The mostly virtual biotech firm, which was hatched and incubated at PureTech Ventures in Boston, has been developing a treatment for pattern baldness that stimulates the re-growth of hair follicles by harnessing a natural wound-healing response.

“Our hypothesis has always been that we could harness adult stem cells to grow new hair follicles,” Ju says. “I think what this recent paper shows is that the stem cells are indeed present.”

Cotsarelis agrees. He says that the findings of the research make a treatment to re-grow hair follicles even more plausible than before. Follica is trying to regenerate hair follicles anew, he says, and he and his colleagues show in the study that the hair follicle stem cells are already present in the scalp.

“It made us realize that male pattern baldness is probably not a stem cell problem as far as numbers go, but that it’s more or a problem of activation of the stem cells,” Cotsarelis says.

In fact, the study’s human scalp samples—collected from men with pattern baldness who were undergoing hair transplantations—lacked progenitor cells that help grow new shafts of hair. Those progenitor cells develop from stem cells. So some of the answers about the causes of male baldness might lie in understanding why the stem cells present in guys’ hair-deprived scalps don’t advance to the progenitor stage. The study found no significant difference in the amount of stem cells between scalp samples from haired and balding regions from the same people. Cotsarelis says that further research is needed to understand why this is.

An overseas human clinical study of Follica’s drug-device combo treatment for baldness is under way, Ju says. He declined to share key specifics of the ongoing study, such as where exactly it is taking place, yet he did say that the firm eventually plans to pursue approval of the treatment in the U.S.

“I will say that the trial is being done in a very quality fashion outside the United States,” Ju says. “They are being done under the same standards as one would see in the United States under FDA [oversight].”

Unfortunately, Ju wouldn’t provide a timeline for when a clinical trial of the firm’s treatment might open to those seeking to remedy their baldness in the U.S. But based on the avalanche of comments we typically get on our stories about the startup, it probably won’t have any trouble finding participants when and if it launches a study in this country.

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  • rev

    It looks like they took a page from Histogen to take their trials overseas. I wonder how far along they are right now.

  • Zarko

    Well, this is great news.

    But, I don’t know if we are going to have a cure any faster than before this news.

    I sure hope so and I know that all of you guys do too.

    Happy New Year everybody and you know what is the wish :)

  • Ryan

    It’s nice to see some sign of life from Follica, I’m surprised at the lack of comments so far. Will you guys be posting here now?

  • Joey

    Definitely good news. I think now Follica is joining the crew that are trying to find in the middle term a solution for baldness.

  • Mr. Z

    This is good news, overall, for the fight against baldness. And i have little doubt that they will one day have a treatment that can 100% reverse baldness. For the next generation baldness is going to be an option. However, for older guys like me (late 30’s), this is basically a dead end.

    Follica was my wildcard…i was hoping there was an outside chance they could get this together without the full blown FDA trials; perhaps getting it classified as a “cosmetic” procedure, similar to something like a chemical peel for skin, and get it to market right away. But, that doesn’t appear to be the case. They are in early trials trying to demonstrate proof of concept and mentioned that they intend to develop it with the intentions of going through FDA. Which means that even if everything goes smoothly, they are anywhere from 5-10 years away.

    I know it was not likely to happen how i wanted, but, i was hoping there would be a small chance. Well, i guess that small chance just got hit with reality. Nothing coming anytime soon. I guess the next best hope is Histogen, which, if all goes well, won’t be for another 3-5 yrs. And then there is Aderans, which is 3-5 away as well…maybe longer if you factor in the time it will take to make the procedure readily available, in a commercial sense.

    Damn…can somebody please tell me my view here is wrong? I could use the lift…

  • happy1

    Interesting the denials of trials until this point.

    FYI: I received an email from Trichoscience today. They informed me that phase 1 of their product -Replicel-is currently underway.

    Going back to the article:
    “It made us realize that male pattern baldness is probably not a stem cell problem as far as numbers go, but that it’s more or a problem of activation of the stem cells,” Cotsarelis says.

    Hmmm. You mean that you Follica was surprised by this? By all the posturing, I would have thought that Follica was way beyond the discovery stage.

    Still, i’ll take it as good news.

  • Jacob

    Mr. Z, I think you’re jumping the gun a bit there, we still don’t know how the Follica treatment will be classified and that has a big impact on timelines, we also don’t know how long they’ve been doing trials.

    This study just supports the method Follica will be using for a treatment, I think it’s seperate from Follica though. In another article they mention developing a topical cream to start the cells working properly again, that could be 5 or 10 years from now, I don’t think Follica’s wounding method will be.

  • Mr. Z

    I hope you’re right Jacob. I recently decided that i need to get off both minox and propecia due to side effects and have been down in the dumps about it. They had slowed things down considerably for me and i thought i would be able to hold out till the next treatment came along. But, i need to get off them now and am seriously concerned about how much hair i’m going to lose in the next few months.

  • Shooter

    I think Jacob’s comment is accurate. Studies conducted in other countries (so long as they are conducted in a matter consistent with FDA protocols, which Ju confirmed) expedite the approvals process in the US. We still don’t know how far along Follica is in their trials, but if they have made substantial progress and if the treatment works as planned, it will not be too long before they start bringing their treatment to America.

    Remember Histogen’s formula:

    Asian Approval + 1 year = US Approval

    I’m sure things aren’t too different for Follica.

    Mr. Z – don’t worry man. I really think things are going to start looking up soon. You’ll be fine. (Also, if you have money to spend, try TRX2 for the next year or so – who knows, it might work, and we’d all like to know if it does!)

  • Mr. Z

    Thanks Shooter. I’m no fan of TRX2 and will not even consider anything that comes from from him/them. I am however contemplating PRP/Acell, but need to see some conclusive proof it works before i’ll drop 3K on the treatment. If i end up doing it, i’ll definitely keep the board informed of my results.

  • spyder

    “HM couldn’t come soon enough to put xxxxxx out of business.”

    @rev – You can be assured that “we-WILL-win”!

  • rev

    @ spyder. At least HS lifted my ban after a few days this time around. Last time I was banned for confronting Armani it lasted more than 6 months.

    @ Mr. Z. I actually had some decent correspondence with Dr Joseph Greco back in 2009. I posted my conversations on HS …up until my first ban. We spoke regarding his PRP treatments and ongoing research combining PRP with a matrix (www.orogen.net/plus.php). Here’s an excerpt from Dr Greco”

    “What you will find regarding PRP, is the future is in the “matrix” that allows the growth factors to do their magic. Picture a bridge that has a span missing in the roadway. You can pour all the cement into the hole, but it will just pass through (ie PRP without a matrix), but if you create a foundation from one span to the other ( matrix) the cement will attach to the foundation and a connection will be made from one end of the defect to the other” ~Dr Greco

    It’s interesting how we’re talking about PRP + Acell (a matrix) these days which seems vaguely similar to Dr Greco’s work. It might be worth your while to contact Greco for more info.

    On a side note, I realize you’re not a fan of Thomas Whitfield (who is really?), but at this point I don’t see any harm for you try his treatment. Best case scenario – it works. Worst case scenario – you can discredit him via your experiences with his product.

  • confused

    Could someone explain why a US based company like Follica would want to conduct trails oversees? Shooter’s formula “Asian approval + 1 Year = US approval” doesn’t make sense to me. Why not just go straight for US approval? It seems like it would be more hassle and the only possible benefit might be getting approval in some country with less stringent safety regulations than are in place by the FDA. Please note that I know nothing about business and don’t mean to imply anything, this is simply the only explanation I can imagine.

  • rev

    Why would anyone go overseas for trials?

    – Cost savings: it’s the same reason everything’s made in China these days.
    – Secrecy: most of us thought they weren’t into human trials yet. Clearly it worked.
    – ROI: They can recoup some of their expenses via early sales in the Pan-Asian markets if they so wish… assuming they went Histogen’s route.
    – Bureaucracy: Because the FDA’s a cantankerous c*nt.

  • Let us all hope for a cure. I know a lot of men waiting for this.

  • Deluxe

    Knowing this information now, with the progenitor cells not being active, how do you guys think this would affect hair transplant patients?

    Would activating the progentior cells still result in hairs growing between the transplanted hairs?

  • Mr. Z

    Thanks for the info, Rev. I never really thought PRP was much to get excited about – the results were unimpressive and didn’t last when used for AA. But, when they started talking about using it with Acell I thought that they may be on to something which could be more effective. I went as far as to get a quote on a treatment, figuring it wouldn’t be too costly b/c they’re still in the experimental stage. I was wrong about the cost, it was quite expensive and i wasn’t about to invest that much in something which hasn’t been proven to work yet. Hitzig mentioned he’s seeing good things using it in his work, but, has not released photo documentation yet. When/if he does, if it looks good, i’ll give it a shot for sure.

    Also, i hope we hear about Follica’s clinical trial results soon. Hopefully in 2011 at somepoint. If they’re getting good results – and this press release seems to maybe indicate that they are – it would be a major step forward and maybe give us an idea on timeline.

    Like other’s have pointed out, I think it’s funny that Costarelis was quoted numerous times saying that clinical trials have not been started; clearly not true. It’s amazing they can keep it so secret. You would think word would leak out somehow, somewhere. I wonder how long the trial has been ongoing and when it will finish? And i’m more than a little curious what their “device” is…

  • JD

    Mr. Z out of curiosity what are your side effects from minox? Not talking propecia, just minox

  • Metsie

    I hate to say I told you so but I suspected they were doing trials overseas. That standard Cots answer was BS they are not obligated to disclose any info.
    I also believe it will be released this year. Not in the US but elsewhere.

  • Shooter

    Good God Metsie I hope you’re right. Once again, I don’t think you are, but your track record is better than mine so far.

  • Z79

    This is very exciting! We have a treatment that aims to restore a full head of hair in human trials!
    But when did it start?? And which phase is it? Could it be a combined I/II that Histogen is about to start? How many subjects is in the trial? Talk to us Follica, give us that much at least!
    I personally think that the trial might have started last summer since they received more cash in june which likely went to to pay for the trial. Cant wait for the result!!

  • Mr. Z

    JD – i noticed my face was starting to look different. It wasn’t anything major, but, noticed bags under my eyes and the skin in that area darkening…I’ve never had that before. Also, my forehead was starting to look…i don’t how to describe it other than swollen, maybe a little poofy? Wrinkles were becoming more apparent. These are not things that are so obvious a stranger would notice on me. Even i wasn’t sure if what i was seeing was real, thought maybe i was tired or something… but then i went and saw a friend this past weekend who i hadn’t seen in a months and they made a comment within the first minute i walked in their door. It kind of scared the crap out of me. I’m assuming it’s due to minox since i went online and read many others having the same experience.

  • Lurker

    I’m not terribly surprised by this news. I figured the company would not be getting money in from investors unless they had “something”. Whether or not that something works or not, is another story, but I think the research mentioned here is important.

    Anyway you look at it, this is a huge step forward. The only thing I kinda don’t like is the fact that the solution Follica appears to be developing is “DRUG”-related.

  • JD

    If i were you JD i’d try just going off propecia and try using minox 4-5 times a day. Some guy on hair site is only using minox 4-5 times a day and claims he recovered 90% of his hair this way and has maintained for 6 years with zero further progression of hair loss. Your side effects are most likely from propecia. it causes me the same sides. Minox has no sides from my experience. One way to combat that side effect of propecia is to take the supplement maca. i use solaray brand. For a few weeks it may give you a headache but that’s because it’s so potent. Get used to it and there are no side effects other than making your face look 10 times better and also helps a ton with sexual side effects if you have any. I personally dont have them but notice maca does increase sex drive. For me lifting weights enhances the effects of maca on my facial features. Trust me, i know what you mean about the puffy propecia face. In a few months im going to try going off avodart (same sides as prop) and see how minox 4-5 times a day works. I’ve been using minox 4-5 times a day for a week now and will continue. The point is that it’s doubtful minox is causing the sides you are experiencing. I’ve been battling the same thing for years now and only 2 months ago discovered maca. At the time (a few years ago) i was taking propecia i stopped for two weeks and still continued minoxidil and the puffy face look totally went away so im pretty sure it’s not the minox. Since i take avodart now it will take longer for that look to go away per the longer half life of avodart. Also something i’ve noticed- generic fin will make your face look even worse than propecia. It must have some kind of bad filler in it or something. Anyway, good luck.

  • DBS

    Hello all. It’s been months since I last checked the board and I’m certainly glad something made me do so today. The news that trials are occuring in some form and the news of more scientific work for Cotsarelis is great to hear.

    Way back in the Spring, I was accused of being on a honeymoon with Follica by someone here. At the time, I was willing to remain optimistc about Follica because I believed their process offered the best full scale solution. I also said it was very possible they were conducting trial, but we were just unaware.

    I don’t want to give the impression happy days are here again, but proceeding to trial is good news. That explains why Follica has been able to continue to raise money. It also means that valuable experience and insight will be gained.

    I would like to think 18 months from now we’ll all be ready to grow our hair back, but I know this is just a small, but good step in the process. With any luck, Follica and Cotsarelis may well have a “cure” by 2014 or 2015.

    Just as an aside, I think it would do everyone well to take long breaks from this topic. Too much time here can break a man’s will.

  • j

    I also have been optomistic about follica….

    I think this is great news! I wish they told us more but oh well..I got enouph to hold me over for another 6 months LOL

    Mabye well have a treatment sooner reather than later? I feel much better now that we know a bit more, I think everthing is going well and we dont have much longer to go…

  • KKwilliams

    Glad to see follica has been doing some more work and they werent just going to drop the bomb on us that they had hit a major wall and would be dropping out of the race.

    Hopefully this new information about “us lacked progenitor cells” as being the cause of all our problems will get some more money hungry scientist/investors involved in this as we now have another avenue to look at. Its like were playing jeopardy and follica just gave “everyone” another vowel

    maybe it will help another competing team or new team to solve the puzzle :)

    I wish I knew how much of a big deal this latest find is in the overall race to a cure. Im glad to see follica has at least started trials but Im still sticking with my 4-6 years timeline on any really advanced(good density/natural looking hairs)treatment being released overseas or in the U.S.

    was a good start to the year and hopefully we will continue to hear good things.

    MR.Z hang in there man. even if you are 40 and we get a full blown “cure” within the next 10 years it will change your life.

    you will be given such a boost and your life will be yours again. you might be 50 but you will feel like you are 25 again.

  • Lurker
  • j

    @Lurker..what is the date on this article?

  • Shooter

    Lurker, that article was from 2007…

  • Shooter

    Also, where’s Artista? I’m sure he’d be interested in this…

  • DBS

    I just wanted to add two other thoughts. The great thing about Cotsarelis’ finding is it gives researchers the blueprint on how to turn on hair follicles again. In the past, no one really knew that.

    With this new information, it’s likely we’ll see big pharma get in on the deal with an effort to produce a cream, lotion, a pill, or even a shampoo that gets the hair stem cells to work properly again.

    Secondly, look when Cotsarelis submitted his work, July 22, 2010. It’s been almost six months so they have almost certainly continued to build on their findings and it’s possible that can be added to the current trial Follica is conducting.

  • Shooter

    Interesting, DBS. In another article/interview based on this most recent finding, Dr. Cotsarelis said a new treatment for hair loss could take decades to develop. I think that statement is misleading though because he does not acknowledge that Follica is in clinical trials pursuing a different avenue. I think Cotsarelis’s timelines, whether they are good or bad, are almost always completely incorrect. It seems to me like he just doesn’t want people e-mailing him anymore about hair loss treatments.

  • Jacob

    I’m in the UK and Dr Cotsarelis was interviewed on BBC radio yesterday, one of the good things he said was it lowers the bar for finding a treatment for this, which sounded to me like it could speed up any possible treatment. The interviewer was a being a dick though imo, he basically asked Cotsarelis if we should be wasting time finding a cure for baldness when there’s more important diseases that need curing, and he also said maybe men who lose their hair should learn to deal with it because it’s nature. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing to be honest, Cotsarelis did explain to this guy that this research is a first step in treating other diseases as well and it’s not just men but women who suffer from baldness.

    It shows how ill-informed the majority of people are about hair loss, it’s still seen as a comical thing to anyone who’s not going through it, and they don’t have a clue or care that this happens to women and children as well. What really irritates me is this bullshit about accepting things, it’s not human nature to accept things, if it was we’d never have left the caves, and we wouldn’t have any of the things we take for granted like computers.

    I appologise for that little rant, but it really pisses me off.

  • iwantsomehair

    Shooter, Where and when did cots say it could take decades? Thats not good at all if he did indeed say that :(

  • Shooter

    He’s saying it all over the place, just find a couple press reports. Still, don’t get down or anything. He is NOT talking about Follica whatsoever. If Follica was in clinical trials (as we now know they are) and they were still a decade away, that would be one of the slowest clinical trials ever (especially given the fact that they are using approved drugs and procedures).

  • Z79

    Daphne Zohar in june 2010:

    The company is still in the development phase and plans to use the funding to advance the hair-loss treatment product. “A lot of these potential customers are wondering why Follica isn’t saying more,” Zohar said. Because it’s in the development phase, it may seem like it’s taking a while, she noted, “but things are moving quickly.”

  • DBS

    As I said, getting the road map for this is big. It provides Merck and other big pharmas a chance to get into the game without having to do a boatload of costly or time consuming research.

    The work Cotsarleis did is certainly not patented so who is to say someone other than Follica or him can’t use the work as the basis for a medication that corrects the stem cell problems. I really do think this opens the door for a flood of work to be done. The field could get crowded.

    It’s always been my contention reviving the dormant follicles was the way to go. This works proves that can be done and I can’t imagine why, with today’s computing power, the process can’t be quicker than it might have been 10-15 years ago.

    I think Cotsarelis was burned by his optimistic Follica timeline in 2007 and now he’s basically saying don’t hold your breath. Classic overcompensation possibly? Chances are results will be more likely in 2020 than 2015, but who really knows. As the movie “Duplicity” showed us, the race for the potential big cash in this business can be a big motivator.

    Consider me excited and optimistic, but not unrealistic that 2011 or even 2013 will be the year.

  • yujin

    Ah no, the work isn’t patented since it takes years for a patent to finally be enabled. A patent likely has been filed and if it hasn’t the researchers have up to one year post-publication to file. A drug company can license the technology but what the hell is the technology? They proved there are stem cells present. No druggable target that a big pharm would pursue.

  • Mr. Z

    Yujin, I don’t think that’s accurate. The stem cells themselves are/would be the druggable target.

    It wouldn’t be overly difficult for a pharmaceutical company to start screening different cytokines and inter-cellular messenging molecules against a set of stem cells to see which are critical for converting the stem cell to a progenitor cell. Pharma companies setup screening assays like this all the time – it’s one of the things they’re very good at. And once they have the assay setup, they can screen, literally, thousands of compounds in a relatively short amount of time.

    I think they could pin the necessary molecules down relatively quickly. Then it’s just a matter of developing the right delivery system.

    However, this would still require the painfully long FDA clearance process…so I would think it’s many years away. Hopefully, follica will make it all unnecessary.

  • yujin

    Sure, they just have to grow those stem cells somehow …..oooooh. But then it’s quite simple really – a single drug that drives differentiation of a stem cell into a cleanly definite progenitor cell…..ooooh. Of course that progenitor has been analyzed so deeply there must be various immunocytochemical markers and biochemical assays to ….ooooh. Assuming that if such a cell differentiation process occurred it would take place in 8, 12, 48hrs? Ooooooh. That progenitor cell would of course survive and present itself in the screening media since we know the ideal conditions to keep it viable…..ooooh.
    Yeah, it’s called basic research, and drug companies don’t specialize in it. They perform screens against specific, well published receptors and kinases because even when you know the target (why would you want to KNOW the specific protein targeted by the drug?….ooooh) you at least have a shot at optimizing drug structure. But even then you’re not out of the woods by a long shot. It has nothing to do with the “painfully long” process of clinical trials. To even get there is a long road. A big pharm wouldn’t touch this in a million years. For a very simple reason, there’s no established science! A professor who publishes something once has made an interesting observation. If a prof. at UPenn uses this information (quite simply, very easily) to regrow hair on a human skin graft on a mouse, say, 5 years from now, a drug company’s interest may be piqued. So if Follica II opens it’s doors in 2-3 years (or more) from now that 5 year road to piquing the interest of a pharm giant will have begun. That’s why new drugs aren’t invented for every disease every day.

    Oh, and the cherry on top. It’s “just a matter of developing the right delivery system.” Sure, one long weekend.

    Of course the researchers at Follica WERE a bunch of a**holes but now they’re obviously going to have an incredibly strong therapy in 2-3 months. Yes, quite, of course. Burp.
    If they ever do give an IPO I would save your $$.

    Find some science news articles from 10 years ago. See which exciting new leads have led to drugs available now. The work published by Cotsarelis is very interesting….OK. Next.

  • ZZ

    I saw the article where Cots said it could take decades and agree timelines should be taken with a bottle of salt. In January of 2009, Cots said in an interview in the Philadelphia City Paper that there would be a test in “two to three” years…… so he actually beat that projection. He then said there will be the usual regulatory stuff after that, so perhaps in four to five years we’ll have something we can offer people.” So he has given us both ends of the spectrum and I agree with those of you above who suggest not getting worked up over either one. Personally, I do not believe any timeline will mean much until someone hits on a viable level of efficacy in one of their trials. Until then we are still in the R&D phase no matter whether the R&D is being conducted within Phase II like Aderans or completely in the closet like Follica. That being said there are many signs telling us that we are getting closer and closer to the breakthru……. the most incredible of which is that we actually have 4 legit breakthru possibilities in clincial trials this year.

    I probably differ from many of you in that I don’t think the clinical/regulatory red tape will be quite as bad as advertised once we have a breakthru. Some of the mitigating factors in favor of a reduced timeline are: no problem getting test subjects for final phases, topical application vs. internal medication, 1 and done or at least limited application of the treatment vs. daily or repeat medication, autologous nature of the treatment, ease of determining whether the treatment is working, etc. And I don’t think the clinical trial phases will necessarily be sequential. For example, I spoke with Tricho the other day about their 6, 12 & 24 month safety endpoints in Phase 1. They are checking for adverse events 2 years later to prove there are no slow developing adverse events. But assuming a breakthrough type of result, they will start Phase II as quickly as possible. I read on xconomy recently where a company had such great results in Phase I, that they immediately started Phases II & III at the same time. They received expedited approval. All in all a tremendous start to 2011

  • Shooter

    Lol @ Yujin. You aren’t very good with people, are you?

  • Mr. Z

    Yujin “Yeah, it’s called basic research, and drug companies don’t specialize in it.”

    It’s not basic research you moron. That was the whole point that was being made about Cotsarelis’s paper. He did the basic research and the pharma companies will develop a treatment based on his work. And no one ever said it was easy, or that it would be accomplished in 48hrs, you sniveling little sh*t. I’m sorry if i didn’t explain the exact process in painstaking detail, from the littlest structural modification all the way up to formulation work to appease your sense of justification….we’re sort of limited by the forum, jackazz.

    “A big pharm wouldn’t touch this in a million years”

    Bullsh*t. Big pharma is involved in research like this all the time. You know nothing about what you’re talking about. Why don’t you take a minute and look into the topic before you run your mouth. I’ll give you a good starting point… Neurosciences is an area where they’ve made huge contributions via BASIC RESEARCH. Look into alzheimers or parkinsons or sleep disorders and see how much they (pharma) have advanced our understanding these diseases. They’ve published volumes and volumes of basic research, have developed all kinds of pharmacodynamic assays and spent tons of cash and man hours doing so. You have no clue what you’re talking about.

  • Little help pls

    Hi guys.

    I know this is not the best place for this but I need some help.
    I got to be honest Im beyond caring about getting a cure for confidence or to get a girl or any of those things. Im honestly even past the point of needing a cure.

    ALL I CARE about is being able to hide my situation and find a job where I can make a good living and not have to deal with being “seen”
    I cant do it. IS there any jobs or careers you guys know of where i can wear a hat or something all the time and still make enough money to live an ok life??

    every job i know of requires you to work in an office or does not allow hats.
    does anyone have any ideas of what I can do? I am terrified of having people see me and I dont know what to do. I know im pathetic but im really scared of what is going to happen to me

  • Metsie

    Ohhh Yujin you better quit now while you still know everything.

    Artista where the hell are you ???

  • Metsie

    Little help, not to be sarcastic but I hope you are seeing someone about the confidence thing.
    You may want to look into landscaping in the summer, plowing service in winter depending on where you live. Maybe painting, something along those lines.

  • Little help pls

    Metsie.

    Its not confidence problem. I had some work done and I hate the way I look.

    I think i have accepted a lot of this horrible deal we all got stuck with. I have given up so much already. girlfriends, social life and I can swallow all those pills.

    I just know my limits and I will NEVER be ok with having to be seen in public without my head covered. I know my limits and that’s it.
    I can live a very happy life alone and if a cure comes down the line 10-20 years I would be happy.

    For right now though I need a career in case we dont get a cure in my “lifetime” I can not afford financially to keep postponing finding a way to make a decent living.

    I guess I am just fooling myself hoping there is some job that pays well and has a pension plan that allows one to wear a hat.

    I am sorry I bothered your thread guys I will let you get back to it. glad you guys got some good news to start the new year

  • Shooter

    LittleHelp – No problem at all man. You have a valid question, and you seem like a pretty smart guy. Awhile ago I was in a very similar position and I considered becoming a semi-truck driver. The pay is good, it is a solitary activity and the scenery is really nice. You might look into that.
    .

  • j

    Little help I think we can all relate to some extent…I think you must be very new to hair loss. The excepting it part is so hard and nobody really understands. I think some guys except it much better than others. The only thing you can do is like shooter said be a truck driver, do some sort of trade where they allow u or require u to wear a hat of some sort. or you will have to start your own business where you can decide what you wear.
    and I hope you will just start shaving it close and trying to accept it the best you can bro… hang in there we are all in the same boat and have our fingers crossed.

    Lets just keep this momentum up and hope for a great 2011.. Happy New Year guys!

  • Nelly

    Good info guys. Just started Propecia and Minox April last year, so far can’t really tell any side effects, but I just keep thinking that maybe I’ll feel it in in years to come. They say that less than 2% of takers have the side effects, but I’m kinda nervous.

  • Sebastiaan de Bruin

    Hi guys

    @ J, Fortunately i was lucky enough on my side job (as i am a student) to arrange a doctor prescription for having seborrheic dermatitis. That kinda saved me from wearing a hat in the supermarket.

    @ Nelly Although im taking proscar and minox, i noticed change in my erection 3 months after starting to take proscar, im now going to take some additional vitamin tablets to see if i can counter them (Vitamine-D might work).

    Damn i pray every day for us, hopefully some day soon we will be relieved from this ongoing depression.

    Greetings from the Netherlands!

  • spyder

    @Sebastiaan de Bruin – Are you kidding? You have one of the famous hair researcher on our planet living in your country!

  • Jordan

    So Follica are in trials? How far are thy into them?

    Also whats going on with Higtoen and their trials?

  • Logical

    I dont mean to rain on the parade. People hate hearing this old adage about another 5 years and 2 years later the another 5 years line but we can only look to ourselves to blame for that.

    we have unrealistic expectations and I can only shake my head when I see all these posters seriously expecting a cure in the next 3 years.
    This latest finding is an important one and will help researchers in finding a cure. It adds to our understanding of why we lose hair but there is still so much to understand before they can reverse what we have lost.
    Look at all the approved treatments so far. They were accidents and they dont really work and also have serious side effects and some people will argue that point about side effects(I care not to at this time)

    even if follica or histogen release a product to market in say 3 years, and they may not ever come to market, it will not cure you. It will just be a stepping stone. I hope people adjust their expectations and realize it could easily be 20 years before any real cure is available.

    Id love to be wrong so I guess we will know in 4 years if follica or histogen release something

  • Shooter

    Logical, I feel as if all your concerns have already been addressed ad nauseum.

    1) 3 years is not a made up number, it’s the official estimate that Histogen and Aderans gave to their shareholders.

    2) I can’t speak for everyone, but I don’t think anyone is expecting an all-out perfect cure from Follica, Aderans, Histogen or anyone else. Most people want a safe, new therapy that can augment hair transplants and eliminate the need to take Propecia interminably.

    3) No one is pinning their hopes on the latest Cotsarelis breakthrough. People are excited that Ju admitted that Follica is currently undergoing clinical trials and that this research substantiates Follica’s scientific progress thus far.

    Everyone knows the odds, everyone knows the timelines, but this is still the first time in human history when 4 legitimate biotechnology companies have been clinically testing various baldness treatments.

    No need to be down. Good things are happening.

  • KKwilliams

    Logical, some good cautionary points there but as shooter said, most people on here realize that any product released in by any of the 3 companies on our radar will not be anywhere near perfect.

    We are still really in the dark. I just hope these companies mange to release something that can produce “normal” looking and acting hairs. that means density direction etc.

    I dont even care if it is only able to create 30% of a normal persons density as long as its consistent and not sporadic growth. Then it will truly be a stepping stone for future improvements. Its one thing saying they can and have grown hairs in the lab blah blah blah but actually getting a product to market would put the spotlight on how close we might be to a full blown cure and get many rich investors trying to get involved for further projects because the payoff would be in the billions.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I am personally thinking of lasering out all of my ht work. I am just worried what my scalp would look like afterwords. I would be worse off if it is all different color then my face or if I have lots of miniature scarring or hole indents lol

    I am just thinking out loud here. I wonder if I just did 1 treatment sweep on the entire ht area if it would just weaken but keep the majority of the hairs. If I can decrease there density and soften them up it would be a major improvement. I havent seen anyone do this before as id love to see pictures about what to expect. Fingers crossed and knock on wood but I havent lost any noticeable amounts of ground since my work in 07.

    I still strong nw3 so if these treatments come closer or are released i would definitely look into lasering to weaken the ht hair because if the new treatments can grow normal hair id rather be low on density and have normal looking hairs and not have messed up ht hair ruining the new hairs look and movement.

    ht hairs suck and I hope no one from this point on goes that route. Sorry I got off topic guys but I dont even post or check any other sites because they are useless as far as im concerned so I rely on this site )

  • Shooter

    “HT hairs suck” – Can you explain this KK? I mean, HT hairs are essentially just the same as all your other hairs… right?

  • KKwilliams

    Sure thing shooter,
    HT hairs is much thicker than a regular hair, especially if it is in the hairline. It is also grows as if it has been damaged and is wirey, it does not grow straight.

    a single hair will begin normally but throughout its length their are directional changes within the hair giving it a wirey and unnatural look as if it had been twisted around and deformed.
    it is also a darker color than your natural hair.

    I think that a high majority of transplanted hair become somehow damaged or changed during the procedure no matter how careful a team is and they just do not grow or act naturally.

    There also is the directional problem in which they grow which is not perfect either. I suspect if follica or any of these other companies are able to coax hairs to regrow they will be much more natural.

    I STRONGLY CAUTION people not to have any ht work done. Yes its not as much of a hack and slash job as even 10 years ago but it is still 100% obvious and.

    If we get a serious breakthrough treatment within the next 5 years you can get that instead but why waste money and possibly risk affecting results from future treatments and get a ht that is obvious from a mile away. I have warned a few guys on here of this but I think they already booked there appointments and are going to get work done.

    I actual had good work done and have no issue with my scar(like 1mm wide)

    If people really think new treatments are only a few years away lets already begin to bury hts )

    sorry if my description does not help u shooter. best i could do.
    basically
    – hair is much thicker extremely noticeable thickness dif
    heres my ht oic diagram normal hair —– ht hair —^—^— wirey or kinky like a tangled hose :)

    my previous post was about having laser hair removal on them to decrease the hairs density,thickness and hopefully weaken it and possibly get them to grow more normal. if that falls possibly just completely laser them gone b4 a new follica etc treatment

  • Shooter

    Thanks KK! Did you go to a “top doc” for your transplant?

  • KKwilliams

    Id say yes but I guess some people might debate that point shooter ) I flew to Toronto and Had Dr Armani do my procedure.

    lots of people praised my work as a home run which goes to show what pictures online are worth, and thats even with me trying to show my displeasure and with comments warning people not to go the ht route.

    Im not even displeased with the work, its more of the fact that I now realize the limitations and flaws with ht’s. They are just NOT natural and are a bad option IMO.

    I am actually glad I didnt get a huge scar and count myself lucky. sry I took up so many post guys.
    *********************************************

    I would love to see more credible players get involved now because of this latest knowledge about why hair stops growing. I can wait 3-5 years no problem )))

  • rev

    But Hairsite’s main page says the following about Armani:
    “Every patient is like a page out of GQ magazine”

    Surely he must be a conscientious surgeon with a keen eye on the long-term well-being of his patients.
    /sarcasm

  • Mr. Z

    KKwilliams, thanks for sharing your experiences with HT, it’s good to get different opinions, especially from those with first hand knowledge.

    Can i ask how many grafts you transplanted and in to what areas of your scalp? Also, what was your NW classification before the transplant? If the questions too personal, i apologize and there’s no need to answer. But, i’m a little curious… as i was seriously contemplating HT. But it seems the more i look into it, the more indecisive i become. For every good result, there is an equal number of horror stories.

  • KKwilliams

    Hello Mr. Z
    I have no problem sharing my experience with you guys as I have found this site much more informative and less heated than actual forums.

    I had 2 ops done. Nw 3 at the beginning and nw 3 still. I say that because I dont even consider the ht hair as counting and once a better treatment is available I will be lasering out all the ht hair because it is noticeably different from normal hairs(see above posts). I havent lost any noticeable ground since 2007 and my first op. I think Im one of the semi lucky guys who only progress so far along down the nw scale.

    I dont anticipate myself losing any major ground in the future.

    all my work was done in the front. 2700 and then 1500 grafts. first procedure was strip and then fue for second.

    I would hold off if I were you Mr.Z. I dont consider mine a horror story or a failure at ALL! the reality is there are no HTs that look natural or give natural looking results. PERIOD.

    Yes there have been major improvements in recent years but that is just because of how bad things used to be 10 plus years ago. It still is a sloppy procedure and I 100% believe it will NEVER be able to produce normal hairs or results.

    Id suggest holding out the next few years and seeing what these 3 companies follica…come out with.

    MR. Z. even if you went to the best ht doc and paid a million bucks you wont get a home run because the treatment is flawed. I know that is a hard pill to swallow but its the truth at the moment. theres also the possibility that having work done may interfere with the success of future treatments working on us.

    hope that helps with your decisions but best of luck whatever you decide.

  • AA

    This is laymen talk, but don’t fibroblasts stimulate progenitor cells? Which might be why Histogen’s cocktail worked so well.

    Yeah, yeah, we’ll probably be good sooner than later. Ohh, it might take 3 years to get to market. If you’ve already been bald for a while, chances are you won’t be too devastated. It certainly doesn’t impede you from living. Only, having hair is very awesome.

  • Bill

    KKWIlliams, plesae stop spreading misinformation, whether intentional or not. I have had an HT to restore my head from an NW 2.5 to an NW 2. Basically filling in the corners of my hairline. The result is undetectable. Just because you had a lousy result with a renowned hack like Armani does not mean everyone else will. Just look at the results on H&W’s website or SMG. Those are elite, honest doctors who provide consistent results. If you have enough donor, there is no question you can restore the density you had pre-MPB. This nonsense about the hairs being thicker than they were pre-HT is ridiculous. The only reason why they make look thicker to you is because they were taken from the donor which wasn’t compromised to DHT – so having relocated them to the front of your head, they look thicker than the surrounding native hairs because those have already begun the miniaturization process. Getting an HT was the best thing I’ve ever done. I did my research, and the first thing I learned was not go anywhere near Armani. With respect.

  • Mr. Z

    Thanks for sharing KKWilliams. Sorry to hear that your results were not up to your expectations. Hopefully, a treatment becomes available and can make all this unnecessary.

  • herzog

    Bill,
    He’s not spreading misinformation. He gave an account of his own experience. Nothing more, nothing less. Also, the terminal hairs of the donor area are admittedly different from the slightly more vellus terminal hairs of the front – you are correct. They DO look different. In fact, I think you just proved his point. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it’s probably a duck.

    Going from a 2.5 to a 2 is about as subtle as it gets when it comes to HT. I’m glad it has given you peace of mind, which is important. But outside of that, your procedure sounds pretty unsubstantial.

  • KKwilliams

    Cant believe we are still on this but I guess Ill respond because BILL is accusing me of spreading b.s.!!

    Did I bash any docs? did I try and push anyone onto any meds like fin or minox? NO yet again.

    I agree H&W do very good work but you saying ht work is undetectable is a)a lie or B)only true because your work was so minor and probably not even necessary or c) all lies and your an ht henchmen trying to snatch a few more guys before one of “these” companies closing the books on hts for good

    Mr Z. you can read posts like Bill’s and let your desire to have your normal life back rush you into a decision you will most likely regret.

    Im not trying to terrify anyone out of getting work done because the reality is as long as you go to one of the “top docs” you wont get butchered and end up having barbie doll hair but I guarantee you it will not be undetectable a large percentage of the hairs will act and look different from normal hairs.
    I only brought up my experience and opinion on hts because I had noticed a few guys on here who had been hinting and saying they were contemplating ops.

    I dont really care if a few guys say im lying or whatever. All I can hope is I get a few guys to rethink booking a procedure especially when we could be 3 years away from a new treatment.

    If Bills work is so undetectable and perfect it makes me wonder what the heck hes on this site for?? lol

    “there is no question you can restore the density you had pre-MPB” -Bill

    That statement is the biggest crock of SH#T I have ever read. Its lies like that that got me to get work done.

    I wont respond to any further posts about it. Hopefully my last few posts cover everything for those who were interested. I know this back and forth arguing would go on forever so I choose just to end it here )

  • rev

    Hasson & Wong do good work in comparison to some other clinics, but I doubt any procedure that leaves someone with a massive zipper scar on the back of their head can be considered “undetectable”. Personally, I’m not interested paying someone five-figures to disfigure me.

  • Bill

    Was not accusing you of lying – I’m saying that using your experience as ‘the norm’ is misinformation and I’m proof of that. Yes, my procedure was small (1056 grafts to be exact), but the point is that it was along the hairline and it is absolutely undetectable whether you want to be believe it or not. I am as stubborn and cynical as they get and I am thrilled. The reason why I’m on here is I know I’m destined to lose more (I see it happening slowly already) and I know that I’m going to need another procedure unless Aderans/Histogen/Follica come through.

    No I’m not an HT shill. In fact I won’t even tell you where I got my procedure or if it was FUT or FUE if that helps assuage your concerns. But I can tell you this: the hair grew out normally in the direction I wanted, don’t look damaged, and look great along the hairline. And yes, ask any good doc and they’ll confirm that they have the tools to restore to teenage density (granted, they’ll also say it will likely take more than one procedure because graft survival diminishes the more dense you try to go in one pass. Therefore best to do one pass of 50 grafts per cm and another of 20+ — this is the problem with Armani, he goes for broke with one pass and with many patients the damage is too much for any grafts to grow at all). But you hear ‘you cannot restore a teenage head of hair’ because of donor limitations. Which is true of course. If I was an NW4+ there is no way the doc would have given me the amount of grafts I wanted. But with the arrival of Acell, hopefully this will be a concern of the past. Cheers.

  • rev

    “And yes, ask any good doc and they’ll confirm that they have the tools to restore to teenage density. But you hear ‘you cannot restore a teenage head of hair’ because of donor limitations.” ~BILL

    contradiction much?

  • Bill

    rev, pay attention. The two statements are easily reconcilable. The point is, if you wanted 80 FU per cm, you could have it; that is, the doc can place the units close enough together to make it happen. What keeps docs from doing so if you have a large degree of baldness is the limited supply of donor. So, to recap, if you’re low on the NW scale, you CAN take advantage of the advances that allow for a full restoration of density. Hopefully with ACell and the like, even NW7s will be able to do the same.

  • rev

    I have. They aren’t. You can’t.

    If you want 80 FU per cm on small portions of your scalp than be my guest… just don’t come crying to me if you experience shock-loss from dense-packing or when (not if) your hairloss progresses beyond your donor supply’s ability to maintain anything remotely natural in appearance.

    I swear Bill, your logic shadows that of Armani’s. You ignore basic math, and you plan today’s HTs on tomorrow’s HM tech.

  • Jay

    To be fair Rev thats twice you have completely ignored what he has said. He has stated that if ACell works and it allowed a person an unlimited supply of hair that it is then possible to restore to a full density.

  • Ryan

    Can’t we leave the transplant discussions to Hairsite, I for one come here to hear about new treatments.

  • Bill

    rev, I feel for your inability to read and synthesize the comments of others. It’s a real shame, and it’s clearly made you angry and frustrated. The only one here not grasping logic is you my friend.

  • lurker

    Stop talking about hair transplants. No one here wants to deal with those discussions. If you are happy with your HT, walk away. If you don’t want a HT, keep it to yourself. This thread has nothing to do with HTs, so please with all due respect, shut up.

    Back to Follica..

  • A

    But what if Acell + HT gives you a full head of hair, i bet you would be happy to talk about a HT then?

  • V

    It might just be me, but here are my thoughts on this newly published research.
    The fact that this has been published in a scientific journal is quite encouraging, not only because it’s genuinely *new* science on hairloss, but also because this could represent a bit of a conflict of interest for Follica.
    To explain, Follica have linked to this research on their own website and stated that this research supports their approach to tackling hairloss. Dr Cotsarelis is a key part of Follica. The fact that this research has been published with him as one of the co-authors suggests to me that Follica is much further down this road than they are letting on.
    Otherwise, it would not be in Dr Cotsarelis/Follica’s interest to publish the research and give massive clues to their competitors.
    Upshot is, I think they must be so far along the road in this area that they are not worried about making public some of their findings.

    Just my opinion.

  • Shooter

    V, that just blew my mind (in a good way). I really hope you’re right.

  • Sweden

    I fully agree with lurker and others. Dont bother us with Propecia and HT here.

  • rev

    Bill – The only thing I was able to “synthesize” from your sales pitch was that you like to use the word “IF” allot in matters of HTs.

  • lurker

    I semi-agree with V. The publishing link is not something to sneeze at. I’m involved in research and scientific publishing… and you just don’t publish something like this, unless it benefits you. Cots is involved with Follica and would not publish research that would hurt their cause (because what benefits them, benefits him).

    That said, I do think that rumblings elsewhere (Aderans, Histogen, ACell etc) could be pushing Follica to start their marketing a bit early. To me, competition and being the first into market does matter. It particularly matters, for those who’s products are not “the best” of the bunch. They need to make it to market first.

    My opinion (and it’s only opinion)is Follica is the best of the bunch. To me, they haven’t answered to us because their a business. If they did answer to us, that would be a red flag in my opinion. Also, in showing their marketing prowess… they show their abilities…for instance, when they reveal any info, it’s national news. They have leading players in all functions of their business. To me, these guys are the real deal.

    That said, I think they are also wise-enough to realize some of these competitors could potentially have a real find. So, they “may” have to speed up their process in some circumstance… I think may think it’s time.

    Competition and capitalism is a very, very good thing. I also think the regulation is not bad… let’s get this right so people don’t have side effects.

    It’s a race at this point, and I agree with V… Follica’s a good sprinter and most likely has (and has had) some tricks up their sleeves in order to win. If I had to guess, 2011 will have an additional surprise from Follica, which most likely will be revealed in the next year or two.

  • Poster

    I agree with Lurker. I am real optimistic about Follica.

    I have some thoughts on the “cure within a decade” statement.

    If I had to guess, this timeline does not refer to Follica’s treatment, but may refer to a process that activates the progenitor cells without wounding. Hopefully Follica will plow ahead with their wounding technique, and then develop a new procedure that does not require wounding and merely activates the cells.

    They better not stop the entire process and go back to the drawing board, like Aderans did after Follica’s wounding discovery became apparent to them.

  • Jordan

    So are Follica in trails? What do we know? They are still being very tighted lipped.

    NO timeline
    No cost

  • Shooter

    Jordan – Yes, Follica is conducting clinical trials outside of the United States. No, we do not know what Phase they are in, how long it will take for their treatment to come to market, what the treatment will cost, or if the treatment will work in the first place.

    Frankly, I am just happy and thankful that things are moving forward, and crossing my fingers that things are going well.

  • V

    Thanks Shooter!
    I too hope I am right…although I have, on rare occasion, been known to be wrong.

  • Jacob

    I was thinking about what kind of country a company like Follica would choose to do their clinical trials in, and I thought this looked like a likely destination.

    http://www.criteriumusa.com/clinical_research_israel.php

  • spyder

    http://www.bnet.com/blog/drug-business/pharma-8217s-4-best-shots-at-a-cure-for-baldness/7047

    Any thoughts on this article?

    Anyway, this is the part I like most:
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    4. Stem cell research by the University of Pennsylvania
    Product: There isn’t one. Researchers found that, unexpectedly, bald men have just as many hair follicle stem cells (which make things grow) on their heads as hairy men. The sugestion is that perhaps there might be some way to stimulate these cells to turn into hair progenitor cells, which grow hair.
    Pros/cons: Only one type of stem cell, KRT15, was found to remain active. Two others, CD200 and CD34, were “markedly diminished.” Hair is complicated stuff and may require a combination of chemical switches to make it come back. No company is working on a drug for this.
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    Besides that, there are MANY more (hair stem)cell types resp. protein types in hair follicle development involved which are ALL needed to form healthy and long time cycling hair follicles. And if there is a loss through cell death (apoptosis) of just a few correlated “factors” or suddenly missing “factors” which can’t be replaced, reproduced or re-programmed, you will not see any damn thing long lasting growing.

  • Artista

    I’m here guys..didnt know this thread existed until Ryan posted at the other thread. HEY~2011 is certainly starting out right isn’t it? I love the optimism that here. Hang in there one and all.

  • xx

    I second Artista!

  • ers

    hmm

  • ZZ
  • Artista

    “I love the optimism THAT here” ? Another shining example of the idiom~haste makes waste~
    I meant to say that i do see a sense of optimism in my ‘brothers’ here. Its for very good and REAL reasons too. At years end lets see where we sit on all of this.

  • Ryan

    Sounds like Dphne Zohar has been reading some of the comments here, mine included. Hopefully they understand what a nightmare this is for most of us and that’s why the comments can be harsh at times.

  • Hierro

    I think that the most promising is Histogen :) I email and they answer me back right away I think they going to be the first ones to come up with something 2013 in Asia and 2015 USA im 27…by the age of 30 I see myself with a full head of hair thanxs to Hitsogen

  • Serso

    Hierro, is well known that Histogen probably will come to the market by the year 2013, and more interesting is that Trichoscience that are devoloping the cure for baldness for 9 yr said in their website that they treatment “has the potential to become the world’s first non-surgical, permanent solution for androgenetic alopecia” so is possible that we get a cure before 2013 otherwise Trichoscience wouln’d be the first treatment for baldness right? and it says to “A complete RepliCel Life Sciences website is in development and will be launched in the second quarter of 2011.” So let’s hope that they lauch their treatment at the same time they launch their website (Replicel.com) by the way they said in the past the price for their treatment is something around 20.000$ Dolars.

  • Hierro

    Trichoscience has to go trough trials just like everybody else dont they ? i was reading somewhere their trials are gonna be done by 2013 as well and the price 20k? i can buy a bmw with that….. Histogen treatment is gonna be like 5k and maybe if we go to Asia is gonna be cheaper BUT if something comes out before 2013 and cost 20k ill pay for it, i rather drive my 2002 civic but have hair.

  • herzog

    Tricho’s first trial in the former Soviet Union (Georgia, I believe) won’t complete until 2013. There will be further clinical testing after that. So Tricho is still about 4-5 years away.

  • Serso

    Tricho’s is developing their treatment for 9 yrs, so is possible that they use something already aproved, if so, they don’t need to go trought all the trials I think. They will not charge 20k for a threatment if there is a 5k treatment on the market right? But if they are the first to launch the threatment they can charge werever they want, even 20k.

  • Z79

    Tricho is developing a treatment using cultured cells, simular to what Aderans is doing. Regardless of 9 years preclinical work they still need to go through phase 1-3 clinical trials which usually takes about 10 years. Unless they start selling it in some country were regulatory is not that hard. I dont think that is likely though.

  • Mildoc

    After reading on this site I must say that some of your specualations – a cure will be available in two – three years from now on ,is terrible wrong. I work in the industry and all I can say is that it even if you are in phase two, you most of the time have a lot of years of research left, before a solution can be commercialised. With that said, a more realistic timeline would be 15-18 years from now.

  • rev

    Funny stuff.

  • Artista

    It never fails~~~

  • Shooter

    Mildoc… please.

  • Jordan

    Mildo what industry do you work in?
    Obviously a slow moving one.
    We are getting so close its a matter or time! Histogen, Follica, Adreans.

    Theres Acell, PRP Autocloning etc

  • ZZ

    Text book investment timeline!

  • Metsie

    LOL Mildoc thats pretty bold but I’m a little bit more conservative then you. I’m thinking the 18-24 year bracket.

  • Jordan

    i think 5 years max

  • Cheech

    I think 5 months max. Although, I *am* high.

  • bboy

    who the hell is going to invest in a 15 to 18 year return?

  • Jacob

    bboy, no one would and I don’t think for one second that it will be anywhere near that long before a real treatment is available.

  • Sweden

    I am sorry to say it but I think Mildoc has a good point. We are too optimistic since it will keep us positive. Dont you see; we have said five years for years now and still nothing out there. Reason? Five months, hahahah… Research takes a lot of time, a lot. And by the way bboy, farma is a long term investment market with duration up to 20-30 years. (In fact 30 years is classified as short term in economics.)

  • washington

    I believe that ours better possibility in little time is (acell) DR. Jones… I also want to see follica, aderans, tricoschience… but I do not believe that they have something in less than 5 years.

  • Serso

    Indeed research takes a lot of time, Tricho’s reasearh taked 9 yrs, I think 9 years is a lot of time, what makes the products taking so long to come to the market is the research not the trials phases, if u have a product that really works u dont need 1/2 years for each trial phase, 3-6 months for each fase is enought, and the companys can make 2 trials phases at same time with properly inspection (as Histogen will do with their phase 2 and 3).

  • Mino

    All of this speculation is sickening. It’s just a defense mechanism we use to make ourselves feel good. Were not psychic. We could be speculating and giving opinions till something comes to market, but all we would have done is wasted time typing our minds away. It’s all a waiting game people. Yes its very frustrating, and all of us are suffering because a cure is not one of our options at the moment. Hopefully something will come within the next decade. Its hard to hear people say 5-10 years but maybe thats the true reality and there’s not much we can do about it. Maybe Histogen’s product does come to market in Asia by 2013 and we’ll be all happy. We should have some news by summer, and then we could see where a couple of these companies stand. Histogen had great initial results and most are betting there buck on Histogen coming out first, but what if there 1 and 2 trials don’t stand up to expectations. It would have been all a waist of emotional stress. We must wait, hope and pray all things go well.

  • Maverick

    “(In fact 30 years is classified as short term in economics.)”

    What economics is that, a vampire one?

    Short term economics planning – 0-1 year

    Mid term economics planning – 1-5(sometimes 3-7) years

    Long term economics planning – 5-10(in some cases 10-30) years

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/9893431/Types-of-Economic-Planning

    Page 6/8

  • gg hazell

    I think that this situation is pointless arguing about. the only thing we are more or less sure of is it will be within ten years…now whether thats next year or nine years from now we can only wait and see

  • herzog

    An acceptable window. I’ll say 3 to 9 years, yes.

  • rev

    I concur. I think this will be a good decade for us.

  • Maverick
  • joey

    I’m a PhD economist and the short-run is not defined as 30 years. It’s more understood to be about 0-3 years….maybe five if you stretch it.

    I think there will be something new on the market in about 3 years. Most likely it won’t be the holy grail, but it will be a step in the right direction.

  • Shooter

    Lol, thanks joey for restoring some sanity to this forum.

  • Artista

    Well put Shooter. ‘joey’, thank you for your commonsense and concise input.

  • Jordan

    I think we’re due an update from Histogen

  • Caddillac

    Hey guys I just checking back in –its been a little while.

    there is so much info thats been scattered about its hard to keep it all in order so I have a quick question for anyone who really follows the latest posts from these companies.

    ?) what do you honestly expect the first generation of treatments from our big 3 horses in this race to be able to produce in terms of density increase? 20 hairs/cm2 40cm/2? higher??

    Id like to hear real answers based on available data please :) If they could increase our density by 50 hairs/cm2 I think that would be a great advance. does that number seem highly optimistic/hopeful???

    I thought i remember reading histogen was able to produce a 17% increase in hair count but that’s on a bald scalp so that’s not really a big increase. Those numbers may be incorrect but that’s what i recall

  • CaptainPicard:)

    heres what I found

    “the numbers shown in the slides do show a 47.21% increase (179 to 263) which represents the increase in total hair count. In reviewing the actual numbers in the clinical data, the 73.61% increase is actually the increase in the terminal hairs in that subject. So, the numbers on the slide are correct – however, they relate to two different parameters measured (Total Hair Count and Terminal Hair Count).”

    -Dr. Hubka
    Director of Clinical Affairs
    Histogen, Inc.

    Does anyone know what area this is over? If this is per cm/2 it is a miracle. 84 more hairs per cm/2 would be cure territory.
    however these high% results are over like a square inch its not so mind-blowing.
    I am still really excited :))) just a little worried that histogen is still being sued

    DOES ANYONE know what size area these results are from?

  • TT

    Dont mean to burst your bubble but these results MUST be from a much larger area than 1 cm squared.

    if the area is a 1cm/2 there is no way the initial hair count would be 179. if it was the individual would not even be worrying about hair loss let alone be in a trial. I am not sure what area these results are being taken from but I agree that we need data on hair increase with cm squared as the targeted area.

    84 more hairs sounds great but if its over a large area it is no big deal since we need tens of thousands

  • ZZ

    Histogen will present new findings today at the 5th Annual Stem Cells and Regenerative Medicine World Congress. Here is a preview:

    http://www.histogen.com/aboutus/news_events.htm#32

    Nothing about hair specifically but so far their overall findings seem almost magical with implications far beyond our focus here.

    Has anyone heard an update on their clinical trial? I believe the last estimate of trial launch was February.

  • rev

    Apparently, Histogen’s trial has been pushed back to the end of May now. Here’s a copy of some correspondence posted on HS recently.

    “Dear ——,

    Thanks for your patience.

    We are starting phase 1/2 in Singapore before the end of May and hope to have phase 3 pan-Asian data by Sept 2012 for an NDA submission and 2013 approval. (hopefull Q2 2013).

    We will be starting to collect info on volunteers shortly.

    Please write me in May for an update.

    Thanks and take care,

    Gail”

  • ZZ

    Bummer on the delay but still a very agressive time line. The latest research sounds so good it almost makes me want to take a bath in HSC.

  • Lurker

    I’ve said it before, none of these treatments will result in an absolute 100% cure for baldness. However, they will certainly be a huge step in the right direction, and will be better than the current alternatives: nothing, meds, or HT.

    That said, I really don’t think the world knows how much an affective treatment for baldness will change our society, in terms of mating or just in terms of discussing who is and who is not attractive. It will effectively give rise to many men’s level of attractiveness, equating the playing field and disrupting commonplace notions of attractiveness. Not trying to say men who are bald can’t be attractive at all, that’s clearly BS. Just saying there are some men who don’t look great bald, who look great with hair. It would provide choice, without potentially sacrificing horrid side effects.

    A good treatment will change this stuff. In a sense, is already happening with current available treatments/concealers… if this develops further (which it will, hopefully sooner than later) and improves to the extent that it’s barely noticeable, we’ll be looking at a whole new world in gauging attractiveness in males. It will be similar to how a woman is viewed post breast implants, except, perhaps even more dramatic.

  • Shooter

    Lurker – I’ve also thought about this, but I don’t think the difference would be so profound. We make a big deal out of it, but most people really wouldn’t care or notice… they’d just see less bald guys. Of course, this whole debate depends on IF we’re lucky enough to get an effective treatment in the first place.

  • iwantsomehair

    ZZ you are ususally so logical. why are you so bullish on Histogen? what have they produced that makes you wanna bath naked in their juice?
    BTW i’m from san diego and would love to see a local company be the first to market!

  • Shooter

    “what makes you wanna bathe naked in their juice?”

    Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

  • ZZ

    iwantsomehair……I don’t think any different now than I did before this latest update. I think they are one of the players with a shot…I was just joking b/c after reading the press release on the preliminary research it sounded like there could be no end to the benefits of their “juice”….. cure cancer, heal wounds, grow hair and who knows what else.

  • Serso

    Some new information from Follica
    http://www.jci.org/articles/view/44478

  • Shooter

    Thanks, Serso. That is the research study that this xconomy article references. The study wasn’t affiliated with Follica, but people associated with Follica (Ju and Cotsarelis) say it supports the scientific basis of their technology.

    Who knows…

  • Mino

    I still have hope for Follica in releasing something sooner rather then later. I mean if the solution there using doesn’t need FDA approval because there natural occurring substances then all they will need to get approved is there administering devise. Devises take much less time to have approved then medication. This is all on the notion the solution doesn’t need approval. You never know. Histogen is still my favorite.

  • bboy

    In reversible types of alopecia (e.g., alopecia areata), inflammation targets hair follicle progenitor cells but spares hair follicle stem cells. In these disorders, regrowth occurs with suppression of inflammation and subsequent regeneration of the hair follicle from uninjured stem cells (5). Our finding that AGA, in the clinical category of nonscarring alopecia, demonstrated preservation of hair follicle stem cells suggests potential reversibility of this condition.

  • Maverick

    “The latest research sounds so good it almost makes me want to take a bath in HSC.”

    And what then? you will open a new topic: “All I wanted was some hair, now I look like a werewolf, what should I do?” :D

  • Happy1
  • Serso

    Well, the first company to launch a cure probably will sent the others to bankrupcy, probably we will see companys trying to put theyr products in the market quick as possible.

  • Mino

    Its a race to the finish line. I hope these companies are really working hard to get something to market. I really like Histogen’s product. Follica makes a lot of sense and if there in trials for drug application device it might hit market sooner rather then later. Aderans is a hit or miss as well. Hopefully by summer we should have an idea of whats going on. I just wished Follica was more open with this study and trials.

  • Z79

    Does anyone know that Follica did a presentation at BIO-Windhover Conference and Pharmaceutical Strategic Outlook Conference a year ago? I wonder if they might have talked about results from the proof of concept study? Also wonder if they will take part in more conferences this year and talk about the overseas trial…

    http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=34726725

  • Shooter

    Z79 – Yeah, I remember that coming up about a year ago but we never heard anything about it.

  • Mino

    Follica said there using products already FDA approved. If this is the case, why would then even go ahead with it. How would the company being making money on something that already approved? Only thing i could think of is making money of the device. But if the device hits marke, many other companies could copy and make the device better and Follica would lose money on sales. Idk whats going on here. Any ideas????

  • patent

    Whoever received the first patent on the snowblower didn’t invent the wheel, an internal combustion engine, etc. If the final product is A) useful B) never been invented before and C) NOT obvious (this is the dicey part) then you can patent and hope to make a profit. I really don’t know Follica’s technology but I am curious. From what little is available online it’s clear the would like to combine micro-wounding with a protein or proteins to stimulate hair growth.

    If the protein was, e.g., interferon-gamma then OK, it’s gone through the FDA process before as an anticancer agent and doesn’t likely need to go through the process again.
    But even if you skip clinical trials, as long as you have a patentable invention you can still make a profit. In the fictitious example of interferon, someone may already have a pretty broad patent that covers any use of interferon for therapy. That simply means a company like Follica would take a license to the technology and hopefully not owe the interferon patent owners (university or private company) more than 1-5% of the company. Happens all the time.

  • Serso

    patent, if histogen works and Follica works to, I will never submit myself to have deep skin injuries to have my hair back if I could do it with some injections from histogen, but if the first treatment on the market will be from follica probably I would do it.

  • patent

    I have no idea about the specific details on the technology. Just answering the question about whether a medical technology can be profitable.

  • Maverick
  • Jordan

    I think that’s the same company which happy 1 posted above.
    It’s so sad to lose your hair, all these companies it’s so easy to have your heart set on something.

    Histogen will start trails at the end of may, I hope they can give us at least minimum of 50% increase.

    Is there anyone who can read the follica patent and make sense of it.

  • thebaldlie

    It really seems that xconomy is the only place where you really and seriously can discuss and debate hair loss related topics and future treatments without just finally stepping into the trap (HT chair) …

    http://hairfraud.blogspot.com/2008/03/spencer-kobren-and-farrel-mannes-agenda.html

    If you do some google checks, you will notice that “behind every rumour is always at least an atom of (bald)truth”. lol

    Have a nice weekend guys, and thanks for sharing your information.

  • Maverick
  • jordan

    when do expect to launch a product, and what density are they aiming for?

  • “and what density are they aiming for?”
    i believe that they`re aiming for the original density. from what i`ve read (the pdf) they say that in AGA hair still grows, but it`s thinner(vellus hairs i guess). the drug will be like minoxidil, topical(it`s applied on the affected area) and they`re hoping to reverse the AGA process. Sorry if my english is bad. i`m from eastern europe…

  • Gygax

    Gygax,
    Everything you just wrote was perfect English. No apology necessary :-)

  • Serso

    There are several companies developing a cure for baldness… I know at least 14.

  • jordan

    what are they?

  • Herzog

    Yes, Spencer Kobren’s “Bald Truth” is a marketing channel. Spencer’s ‘opinions’ are curated by the company that invented “Bald Truth” to sell products and mold public opinion.

    This is how advertising works in 2011.

  • Serso
  • Ryan

    Does anyone know what happened to Luna Innovations? They had this press release nearly 3 years ago, but since then nothing.

    http://ir.lunainnovations.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196907&p=irol-newsArticle2&ID=1121474&highlight=

  • Jordan

    Knowing that ALL these companies are working on hair loss, how far are we really from seeing something to market that is better than propecia and minoxidil.

  • Serso

    Jordan, I belive from this year to 2015 we will already have a cure for this year there is at least Acell from Dr Hitzig he is having some progress in is testings and will give some information in some weeks…

  • Herzog

    Serso is like J on meds.

  • Ryan

    Could someone tell me what Dr Hitzig is doing with Acell,PRP + stem cells? I read something about how he thinks in the next year or two he will have a treatment that will be a virtual cure for many men, but not all?

    I would check myself but Hairsite has become unreadable and I can’t be bothered going on there at the moment. Sounds interesting anyway.

  • DBS

    I continue to remain optimistic and firmly believe the discovery there are a lack progenitor cells in the scalps of those with MPB is a major breakthrough. Until this discovery, we had no idea what was taking place at the cellular level. We knew DHT was a causal factor, but not why. This opens the door for many other groups to get in on the race such as big pharma.

    While I think we’re on the right path, I don’t think we should place too much in the fact Follica linked to Cotsarelis’ new findings. I think it has more to with them promoting the idea they have a great scientific team. Almost certainly, his new findings will be a part of the next phase of their product though.

    Finally, I think Follica remains the best in breed. They have the best scientific team and have made, through Cotsarelis, real progress in the understanding of MPB. I’m not trying to knock Histogen or others, but I think their work ultimately just furthers the investigative process rather than providing a short course to a “cure”.

    If you go to ABCnews.com, you can see a video piece they did on this breakthrough and it featured an interview with Cotsarelis. I wish he was more available with his comments, but he did sound quite optimistic to me. The standard “decade until available” was mentioned, but better to under promise than over promise, right?.

  • wha

    DBS
    Follica has the best scientific team? Compared to the craptacular ‘other’ hair companies maybe. They have a team, let’s put it that way. Look up any small biotech and you’ll see that founders and scientific advisory boards all have the high end pedigrees. Bigger companies have guys with resumes that are even more impressive.
    The under promise concept is interesting. The exact opposite is usually true. People overpromise all the time in company time lines. OK, not all the time, but you don’t generated a time line where the end result is you fail, fail, fail and take a side track of 5 years on a ‘detail’ you didn’t plan on.

  • washington

    follica does not have nothing, and for this reason in them it does not present nothing. cotsarellis are a joke, and it does not go to make one norwood 6 to start to be norwood 1 with its (GREAT DISCOVERIES). Follica has 3 years more than and still clinical assays had today not started nor, what voçes waits of this study? if really the wounded proteins of wnt more in escalpe worked in would show something to them.

  • Jacob

    washington, Follica are doing clinical trials in another country,although we don’t know what phase they are up to they’ve started them.

  • uhgnev

    i’d be happy if they repeated the mouse results with human skin grafted on a mouse. at least to have more confidence in the system before heading to human trials. dumping lots of cash and making everyone wait for years for something that may be about as impressive as intercytex.

  • washington

    Follica are doing clinical trials in another country…really? where? which is this country? Jupiter? Saturn?

  • blam

    In Israel.

  • higgins

    In Egypt

  • washington

    ok… they fly for one of these countries and have in return its hair. therefore the only people who know this are you.

  • Metsie

    Israel makes sense. Its FDA approved and it looks like Daphne still has alot of ties there.

  • ItsWhatever

    Breakthrough regenerative medicine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXO_ApjKPaI

  • DBS

    washington

    I’m not sure if your native tongue is English, but if it is, you should be ashamed of your poor grammar. If your native tongue is not English, you should learn to form more coherant statements before posting on a forum like this.

    You come to this board either not knowing the facts or choosing to ignore the facts. Maybe you have been let down by a scam artist, but that’s your fault, not ours. Just because you have decided the work of Follica is not worthwhile does not mean you can come here and spout gloom and doom clouded by your own sadness.

    The work Cotsarelis has done and continues to do has been extremely beneficial to the science of hair loss. Until he issued his findings in 2007 about Wnt protiens, no one even new how to regrown hair or thought it could be done. The best we had prior to then were exceptionally poor HT’s performed by suspect people and propecia.

    At least now, we finally have a clue how DHT affects the hair follicle. But according to you, Cotsarelis discovering stem cells fail to form progenitor cells constitutes him being a joke. Interesting.

    Rather than howl at the moon because you’re losing your hair, provide facts. Also, improve your English and grammar.

  • washington

    my native language is not the English, and yes… cotsarellis it does not have nothing and it did not make nothing for in the bald…
    the only beneficiaries of cotsarellis are he himself, the follica company and its hairy rats of laboratory. fool that one that imagines to have something of follica in next the 5 years.

  • Maverick

    “my native language is not the English, and yes… cotsarellis it does not have nothing and it did not make nothing for in the bald…
    the only beneficiaries of cotsarellis are he himself, the follica company and its hairy rats of laboratory. fool that one that imagines to have something of follica in next the 5 years.”

    You can not expect some miracle cures fallen from the sky out of nothing. Every medicine of today, had some scientific background that probably involved mice, monkey´s etc. And most of the technology you, me and everybody else enjoy today is a result of someones great effort and life dedication to his work. Penicillin discovery is one hell of a find, but if Fleming did not do his scientific job every day of his scientific life, he would have never discovered that miracle fungus that cured diseases that plagued the world for thousands of years, and I doubt anyone before him had not tried to find a cure for example, syphilis. The same thing goes for Louis Pasteur and many other brilliant people that made our life today much easier than it was in their time. In the worst case scenario if Follica even fails to find a treatment(which I personally doubt they will), they will have my respect for even trying to make one and their work and discoveries will be something for someone else who decides to find a cure. Who works makes mistakes, and from mistakes we learn what should we do right next time. That´s the way life goes.

    P.S. English is not my native language, either.

  • Artista

    Maverick,
    you have expressed perfectly what i had tried to say before on one of the earlier threads,thanks for that. It is all a process of steps and for the most part medical R&D is serendipitous. A treatment is indeed coming.I have no doubt of that and it could be quite accidental.
    Now id like to also say that we should not get personal or insulting with others here. Dont allow frustrations to get the better of you.

  • Lurker

    Don’t feed the trolls. Seriously, don’t do it or this will end up like HS.

  • brasil

    when this treatment will be available?

  • brasil

    and with this treatment, could I stop using propecia? Or I will must take this shit forever?
    sorry about my ‘english’

  • brasil

    Brasil,
    I had to stop taking propecia for the side effects. I use rogaine twice a day and it seems to maintain my hair just as well.
    There are many treatments being developed. Histogen’s “Regenica” looks like the closest, possibly available in Asia in mid to late 2013.
    Trichoscience is estimated about 5 years off. There is also something called “Acell” being tested by Dr. Cooley that could be availabe in about a year, but the science isnt really that robust.
    I’m personally sticking to Rogaine until something comes out that doesnt mess with you male hormones.

    That stuff is bad news.

  • Herzog

    Oops, I wrote my name as “brasil”.

  • spyder
  • Shooter

    Well done, spyder. I’m very impressed with that article.

  • brasil

    I really don`t like to take medicine
    so I will be praying for the scientist who are working on it
    although there are other diseases more important than hair loss and thank God I am healthy
    some people try to achieve richness, other women, and other just to satisfy their ego
    I don`t care about these things
    I just want to have my hair back and be happy

  • Serso

    Interview with Dr. Craig L. Ziering from histogen: http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4366

  • spyder

    @hair paper – Are you kidding or what? The “Journal of Biotechnology” is a “weak journal”?

    http://www.elsevier.com/wps/find/journaleditorialboard.cws_home/505515/editorialboard

    What is a “strong journal” for biotechnology in your opinion?

  • hair paper

    Nature (and all offshoots – Nature biotech, Nature medicine, etc.). Cell (and offshoots like Developmental Cell, Cell Stem Cell, etc.), Science, then you have 2nd tier Genes and Development, PNAS, Development, PLoS One, and so on. My opinion plays a part but all these journals have what’s called an impact factor. I would be shocked if Journal of Biotech. has an impact factor above 1-2 (a journal like Nature Immunology would have an impact factor ~30, which is about as good as it gets).
    I’ve done a lot of research, written papers, filed patents and had some nice inventions along the way, and worked with some of the best. Everybody strives for the journals I mentioned and many fail. Still, we all know what’s out there and aside from 1st, 2nd and 3rd tier you also have journals which you never come across (e.g. Journal of Biotechnology) that mostly publish obscure, insignificant and incomplete findings. In all the years of my undergrad, PhD, post-doc I’ve definitely had 100s, if not 1000s of discussions of the latest and greatest publication in the top tier journals. Never had someone in any university or company setting ask me “see that hot paper in Journal of Biotech?”

    Yes, the journal has an editorial board. I guess that you’re way of showing me the journal is significant? If you do work or live near a university with a solid research program in biology and medicine feel free to ask about Journal of Biotechnology. You’ll mostly get blank stares. But I don’t write that to be combative, simply that it’s easier to get the first hand experience than carry out cyber-geek battles.

    The paper is interesting. That’s what I already wrote. I still stand by that. But it’s not publication gold by any means. I realize hair loss is a sensitive issue for some but keep in mind htat if every new and exciting paper in biology research panned out we’d have cured cancer many times over by now.

  • spyder

    @hair paper, thanks for your explanations. I think you know what you’re talking about. Anyway, what I simply don’t get, including some related questions:

    You mentioned “Everybody strives for the journals I mentioned and many fail.” Why do they “fail”? Who is saying that a researchers work/study/findings is “a failure”, “can’t be!” or “can’t work”? I mean, e.g. according to common patent rules, they say that of course just the inventor knows most about his ‘novel’ work/invention/findings (how and in which way he accomplished something, where e.g. others failed etc etc). Therefore, because something or a finding is so novel, therefore “worth to publish” the findings, I ask myself, how can the “peers” during a “peer-review” process know, whether or not something is really working as claimed? How can they be sure? I mean, without a REAL reproduction of claims, the peers practically can’t be sure. Again, because something/a finding is so novel (especially within the stem cell research field), how can the peers be sure? Do the peers try to reproduce the findings (in labs or wherever) or do they simply “trust” the researcher due to “plausible claims” which are in addition backed up with “plausible and already existing science (references)”? So how do the peers/editors finally judge filed research papers/articles?

  • hair paper

    It’s a lot of questions but I’ll try to address them all
    1. Though I don’t want to be picky about the choice of words, yes I did write “fail” because you can fail to publish in a good journal. I guess you’re writing more about the philosophy of it? That the authors didn’t fail since they achieved some result. OK, but those results could be not of the level deemed successful, sufficiently thorough by a group of peers. Or the topic may not have stood a chance to begin with since it only made an incremental contribution to the particular field (e.g. worm heart development).

    2. To patent you need some data (though that data can be weak) and enough description that someone “trained in the art” can reduce what you’ve written into practice. A research group “growing hair” from stem cells could have a success rate of pushing 1 in 10 million stem cells into becoming a hair follicle but that detail could be left out of a patent application altogether. Patents are not based on efficiency, predictions on side effects, etc. If you were the inventor of a Blackberry but it weighed 10 pounds, it wouldn’t matter as long as it worked, if only for 5 seconds. Presumably, it would be recognized that someone could get it work for longer periods and shrink the size, though there’s no guarantee of that.

    3. IN answer to “how can we really be sure the work is real?” – the answer is we can’t always know. If all work was real papers would never get retracted.

    The reviewers would not try to reproduce the findings in the lab or else it could take years for every paper getting published. Some of it is knowing the lab, the methodology, hearing about the work at a meeting (where someone could be grilled about their data) and so on. Keep in mind also that a lot of larger efforts (not all) are collaborations. The likelihood of multiple credible labs involved in some large scheme is next to zero.

    Big picture, for any paper such as the one on hair stem cells at the very least you need to see at least another group reproduce the results. For that particular paper it would be critical to have someone demonstrate efficiency.

  • hair paper

    To add to #3, when a paper does go out for review it usually lands in the hands of at least 1-2 individuals who know the major players in the field, the history of the work leading up to a paper and so on. No lab just crops up out of nothingness and publishes a life changing finding.
    Often work is based on grant applications that were filed years earlier so it’s not like the ‘mad scientist’ in the movies. If a group published research on hair growth it’s because they’ve done it before or raised money to do just that. Though there are big surprises now and then.

  • jordan

    Any more updates? Histogen sound promising after the interview on the bald truth.

    This waiting game sucks

  • spyder

    Thanks hair paper for taking the time to talk to us. Here is something interesting to read concerning this subject (scientific papers vs. patents etc etc):

    http://jiplp.oxfordjournals.org/content/2/2/104.full

  • Ryan

    It seems to be be really quiet around here lately.

    I saw this and was wondering if it might have an impact on any of the things we’re waiting for, especially Follica as there was question marks over whether they would classify their treatment as a device.

    http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/ucm242629.htm

  • Jacob

    Where is everyone? It’s gone eerily quiet.

  • ZZ

    Just to help break the silence, below is an interesting observation, I thought, from Dr. Cooley in response to a suggestion to try adding WNT proteins to an injectable mix of acell/prp and why Follica’s progress may have been much slower than expected:

    “Doubtlessly the WNT pathway is critical in the formation of hair follicles. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if the WNT pathway is activated when ACell coated plucked hair is implanted in the skin. However, I would be very cautious about adding exogenous WNT proteins as this may disturb the delicate balance of stimulatory/inhibitory factors present in this context. For example, it is well known that activation of WNT/beta-catenin is associated with tumor formation, which is why Cotsarelis’ approach is requiring such careful animal studies and will be subjected to close regulatory scrutiny. In the past, some thought that Sonic Hedgehog stimulation had potential for hair loss treatment, but I believe that tumor formation occurred which shut down any further work on this. It may be that the Histogen approach, which uses a mix of embryonic proteins secreted by neonatal fibroblasts, is more desirable because that stimulatory/inhibitory system is already built in.

    Regardless, use of either approach would require FDA supervised studies and should not be done by the surgeon at this time just to ‘see what happens’. ACell is already FDA approved for wound healing and can be safely used as an adjunct to transplanting plucked hairs.”

  • Z79

    Follica attends Biotech/Life Science Conference feb 21-22.
    http://www.pharmalive.com/News/index.cfm?articleid=759343&categoryid=63
    Cant find them among the speakers (http://www.cednc.org/content/biotech+life+science+conference/13573) so maybe they are there looking for more investors. At least it is a life sign.

  • iwantsomehair

    ZZ where did Cooley say this? This is awful news if true:(

  • KKwilliams

    from what I heard in the Histogen latest interview is that they are utilizing wnt 7 which does NOT have cancer concerns/issues etc.

    the audio interview seemed very cautiously optimistic. Im happy with what I heard.

    I think research all around is very close to a cure for us. The MAJOR THING slowing a cure coming about is such long fda safety trials. THE SCIENCE IN THIS FIELD is progressing quite rapidly and we have 3 good companies in the race. It just sucks total Balllls that if they all fail we are back to a 10 year timeframe because any new company has to jump through so many hoops to get to market.

    I think between follica and histogen, one of them has the “cure”(high density regrowth)it is just about getting through trials and finding the best protocol for optimal efficacy.

    I really like the way histogen is progressing. they dont even seem to be planning on screwing us..i guarantee if big pharma was in the race they would have any treatment designed as to be needed to be taken daily for life…and if you ever stopped your hair would fall out and your head would explode :)

  • ZZ

    iwantsomehair, Can’t remember exactly but it came from one of the blogs when I was researching the progress of acell/prp injections. I don’t think this is awful news in any respect. The fact that certain WNT proteins, sonic hedgehog, or any number of other small molecule components in extra strength concentrations and/or in the absence of other naturally balancing small molecule components can cause tumor formation is not a new revelation. What I got from this statement from Cooley (whom I have great respect for)is that: 1) Follica was extremely cautious b/c of the negative (cancer) possibilities of using small molecule components (i.e. WNT) in isolation; 2) Follica is now presumably confident that isolated WNT 7 and/or any other of the components to their cocktail have proven safe to date, otherwise they wouldn’t have moved into Phase 1; 3) There is great promise or logic in Histogen’s approach b/c they aren’t using components in isolation…HSC is in theory a naturally produced combination of component molecules or as Cooley refers to it….a “stimulatory/inhibitory system” which is presumably safe b/c it is a balance derived by Mother Nature. If you have followed the strings of research over the past years it is clear that in certain environments, the application of a particular molecule can bring great benefit, while in a different environment/situation, the same molecule can be destructive or form tumors. So you have to be careful when using molecules in isolation. I believe Follica’s concept is a sort of molecule in isolation conecpt while Histogen, Aderans & Tricho (Replicel)& acell draw on the body’s natural system to repair and rejuvenate. In other words, they are re-creating a natural combination of components that work.

  • jordan

    I wonder when we will see updates from Histogen next?

  • Caddillac

    I dont think we will get any real news from histogen for at least 6 months. The next phase of trials is a major make or break phase for them.

    If they continue to have no safety issues with an increased dosage/increased # of injections and also manage to increase growth we are so much closer to the finish line. After the pan asia trials I think we will know much more about histogen and its possibilities at the treatment to help us all get our lives back.

    RECENT GOOD NEWS FROM histogen
    1- the wnt they use is wnt 7(no cancer hurdles)

    2- this one is positive and negative. growth only occurs 2 mm from the injection site. this is great news because it will allow very precise work(hairline etc)

    downside being we will likely need a lot of injections to cover even small areas. Likely to increase cost and harder time to map/treat a large area uniformly
    All in all I am pleased with where we are headed and all the latest news.

  • jordan

    Where did you get this information from?

  • Virgo

    GODSPEED…

  • Maverick
  • hair paper

    If you are suggesting you’d like to know whether giving someone astressin B will regrow their hair loss…. who knows? I’ve seen mice cured of amazing ‘ailments’ in the lab, but those ailments were brought up in a highly specific way by researchers.
    It’s great that you “believe it’s not a scam” but, much more importantly, the paper underwent peer review and PLoS One is a generally well rated journal. These scientists are in a lab working on a specific area of research and this work plays a small part of what they do. Hair regrowth due to astressin B used to comprise 0% of their research but now, maybe 10-15%? Who knows how long that will last or if anyone else will take interest.
    If we’re to stay focused on therapeutic application, specifically if the research will be translated into a therapy in humans, don’t count on it anytime soon. For all they know the results may be isolated to one specific inbred strain of mouse. Or, as some contributors to the article suggested, it could be for that one in a million person who lost hair due to a tragedy in the family, etc. I do speak from experience – I’ve had many potential hot leads in the lab that fell apart or were not reproducible beyond a certain strain of mouse. So if anything ever did come if it, it would be many years away.

  • DBS

    I happened to see the story relating to mice, hair loss, and stress on my local news. It sounded interesting, but my first thought was that stress is probably unrelated to AGA.

    What I’m glad to see is Dr. Cotsarelis was quoted in the article. It’s becoming apparent he is the go-to person when it comes to comments on hair loss research. I’m glad to see him making himself available for the press.

    Unfortunately, I don’t think this news has much bearing on the work about which we care.

  • Serso
  • Maverick

    @hair paper

    I am saying that whatever this people are doing is legit, not some scam we come across every day in this industry that wants some quick cash on desperate people. All I am trying to point out is that every different angle of approach in effort to solve this problem is just another big plus, even if it leads to a dead end. It will save time for someone in the future not to do the same mistake in his research, in the worst case scenario.

  • hair paper

    OK, that’s a lot of things, no way to tell you were trying to point those things out in that very vague post.

  • lurker

    Is there a reason it’s so quiet in here?

  • new hair!

    Yes, it’s because we’re all part of the Follica clinical trial, and so we aren’t allowed to discuss it legally.
    However, we all now have luxuriant manes of hair.

  • Artista

    I usually avoid the pettiness that we see from time to time on these threads but in re to ‘new hair’s!’ recent comment, that is absolutely irresponsible, immature and not appreciated here.

  • Herzog

    I just thought he was being silly, not cynical.

  • AlexC

    I realize it will be somewhere around a year before we get any more information about how histogens next trials in asia are going(1 year is my guess)

    I am curious if anyone has any idea what we can/should expect in terms of what density they can produce. I have read there trials numbers but im curious about what density per cm/2.

    anyone have any ideas?

  • think

    it’s whatever number Histogen releases after the trial. if we knew what to expect then why bother with a trial.

  • AlexC

    They realeased numbers but I couldnt find of what area they numbers represented. they posted impressive new hairs regrowth but without a area/2 size the results could indicate homerun or not that impressive.

    baseline was 179 haircount.

    week 3 was 193 hair count
    1 year haircount was 263
    so increase of 84 hairs.

    I was just curious if anyone had found over what size area these results show??

  • Shooter

    AlexC – Dr. Craig Ziering (Histogen’s clinical adviser) recently wrote on the TBT forums that even though Histogen hasn’t started their *official* trials in Singapore yet, they have administered their product to several more individuals and they will release the results within 4 weeks.

  • AlexC

    Thankyou Shooter. I appreciate the information :)

    if they can achieve 50 more hairs per cm/2 I will be ecstatic! I love that histogen keeps us so informed.

  • AlexC

    Dr. Ziering just replied and said the trial data was for an area of 1.47 cm/2

    please correct me if I am incorrect the way I am reading or understanding the data.
    Does this not mean they histogen produced roughly 56 NEW hairs per cm2?

    If so that is amazing. Hopefully they do a much larger area in the next round of trials and give us better pictures with longer hairs

  • Herzog

    Yes Alex, that data is correct for histogen’s test.

  • V

    Sorry for my language, but…
    f***ing hell!!! 56 new hairs per cm^2????

    That, my friends, is exciting stuff.
    Bon soir, gute Nacht and goodnight. I am happy.

  • It’sWhatever

    “The Histogen study was originally a safety study with 12 mos follow up, with efficacy as a secondary endpoint. The Company was able to modify the clinical protocol to add a two year safety endpoint but couldn’t perform the full efficacy study. Photos were taken of the treatment site which indicate persistence of hair at the treatment site but an accurate hair number and thickness assessment can not be done. The scientists at Histogen believe that the new hairs seen at 1 year are a result of stimulating stem cells in the scalp and in existing normal and miniaturizing follicles to grow new hairs. There is no reason to believe that additional hairs would be stimulated after one year with only one injection at baseline. ***That being said, the fact that new hairs continue to grow over the one year period is quite remarkable and unprecedented in the hair growth field.***

    Histogen is performing exploratory case studies in Asia where patients are receiving 50+ injections at base line to assess hair growth over time. The Company hopes to have initial results from the first case studies in the next four weeks and plans on sharing those with the hair transplant community.

    – Dr. Ziering”

    Couple weeks and we’ll hear about the results of the 50+ injection exploratory study from Histogen!

  • It’sWhatever

    “Each injection is small, quite similar to the size and volume per injection for botox and dermal fillers. ***In the pilot trial, each 2cm2 treatment area received 4 0.1cc injections, so an average of roughly 100 new hairs were seen per 2cm2 treatment area in the HSC sites. This amount of new hair growth is not only significant statistically, but is also considered cosmetically significant*** – this level of new growth would produce a visible difference if treating an entire region of hair loss. Hair thickness and density also significantly increased in the pilot trial.

    Dr. Ziering”

    You guys HAVE to read this interview!!!

    Source: http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=4366&page=12

  • Jordan

    This is good news. We will find out how on what kind of density to expect. If ts the real deal or not

  • washington

    I would like to see these results in places without no hair. really bald places for terms idea if work in any place, with or without hair around.

  • herzog

    I’d fly to China right fkn now if it was available. Seriously. I’m psyched about Histogen.

  • Zarko

    So, what is holding them to release even at this stage, if they have such success.
    Does somebody know how much will this costs?

  • Herzog

    No Zarko. All they did was safety testing. They didn’t do any testing as far as how to really use it for cosmetic purposes. So they are figuring out the best way to administer the treatment now. It may be about two years before it hits market.
    My asumprtion is that it will be be fairly expensive when it first comes out. But we are far away from pricing it yet.

  • Serso

    Herzog, Dr. Craig L. Ziering said that histogen will make the HSC affordable for the masses, many time ago I read that the estimated price for a treatment with HSC would be 5000$.
    http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum_entry-id-79019.html

  • rev

    The news is encouraging. I’ve had my fingers crossed for Histogen since they announced HSC’s development in 2008. It’s an inspired approach in comparison to Aderans’ treatment that requires a biopsy, pricey cell culturing facilities, and a follow-up visit for the injections.

    Histogen initially stated, treatments would cost $5000. Later, someone mentioned follow-up treatments could be as little as $1500. Of coarse those are older numbers.

  • KKwilliams

    Zarko,
    I think they still need to finish trials and must be able to reproduce the results(hopefully increase efficacy)over a larger area. 50 extra new hairs per cm/2 is amazing.

    If in phase 2 trials they can reproduce 50 new hairs per cm/2 over a say 50cm2 area I cant see this not being brought to market in the 2013 timeline.

    If the new protocol of more injections and the “chosen” formula produces say 80 hairs per cm/2 so much money would be lining up to push this to market I could not see anything being able to stop it.

    I say “chosen formula” because I believe at least 2 were tried and 1 was seen to be most effective

    this phase 2 trials is the biggest hurdle for histogen getting to market?? If they produce 2400 hairs new over a 40cm/2 area in phase 2 what could stop this going forward??

    I seriously believe this could be the finish line for us as a whole :)))

  • Shooter

    This optimism is nice. I say let’s wait and see what the exploratory case studies depict. If the results “look” good, as opposed to just “sounding” good, then I think Histogen can be a really winner!

  • Herzog

    Anyone know if stock is available in Histogen?

    [edit] Hmmm. Doesn’t look like they trade publicly yet.

  • AlexC

    57 new hairs per cm squared! and thats only in phase 1.

    I wonder on average how much drugs effectiveness improve during phase 2 trials when they are focusing more on perfecting the dosages and frequencies rather than the safety that is phase 1 trials–Imagine they get it up to 80 hairs or something :)

    I was much more of the mindset that follica was the one to watch(and maybe still are) but histogen has seriously got us all excited over the last little while. Phase 2 is so BIG and I hope histogen kicks its buttt!

    On top of all this good news follica is still working on their stuff which could also be a huge breakthrough.

    exciting times

  • Herzog

    Dr. Zierig said that the concentration on the injection has been set. What they are testing now is the number of injections and how often they are administered. This could very well lead to more than 57 hairs, but I isn’t 57 NEW hairs per squared centimeter good enough. That’s a lot of hair mate.

    As for Follica, they only JUST started their phase one trials if I’m not mistaken. I would forget about them for now if I were you. Too far off until they get something. It’ll drive you mad.

  • sinb000

    Hi ther,
    no any projected date for launchin’
    this forum has been talkin’ bout this issue since ages till date nothin’ happen
    if any one has a fixed date , kindly announce
    so we’ll work with the same line and follow

  • onionbagger

    hi do you think you will get the same number of hairs on a bald scalp or it would need hairs around injection site for minipulationas i think at 50 haies per square cm could look great.

  • Ryan

    Herzog, Follica didn’t say what phase they were in, so we don’t know how long they’ve been in clinical trials.

  • Herzog

    Fair enough Ryan. I’ll put them back on my radar when they have some news.

    sinb000 – Why are you talking like Popeye?

  • sinb000

    Hey Herzog,
    I’m talkin’ like Popeye coz ya looks like Olive
    Lo0o0o0ol

  • KKwilliams

    Herzog-

    I mean we still have follica working on this and they might achieve a big breakthrough as well. We are lucky that we have other companies with teams working on this also just in case histogen does not get through trials.

    onionbagger-

    yes 57new hairs is amazing over such a small area and im sure histogens protocol in phase 2 or 3 will have it tested on completely bald areas and thinning spots etc.

    the reason I say imagine they can increase its efficacy in terms of density per cm/2 is because on a completely bald scalp 57 hairs cm/2 would still look very see through(normal hair density is roughly 180-220 hairs/cm2 just to give you an idea but it can vary much more)

    hopefully we get more data on how hsc affects surrounding hairs. I remember reading it strengthens hairs and if this is the case this treatment if it gets to market could end hairloss.

    young men and women who are even concerned from family history or just from noticing their hairline begging to change could get hsc injection treatment and it would reverse the damage by adding the density that may have been lost and strengthening weakening hairs that were destined to die off. that would be good enough to keep natural densities with 1 yearly treatment until a more permanent solution’s became available.

    people who have already lost a lot of hair are the ones who “need” histogen to be able to increase the density. DONT GET ME wrong 57 more hairs per cm2 is nothing to be disappointed with )

    sinb000- expected release in asia is 2013 -14 and usa possibly 2015

  • julian

    We have a race going on, not to find anymore but to develop I´d say, a cure for baldness, this is crystal clear. Follica and Histogen are the ones on the lead in this race. Follica remains silent, some would say too much, and we don´t know if they´re close or not to releasing their product. Histogen reveals its progresses with much less concern and have already even given us an estimate as to when their product should hit market, which sounds good cause it´s not too far off. One of them probably will win this race. What we all are crossing our fingers to is that they really are getting to the finish line by now. I personally bet on Follica´s “mysterious horse” – if their trials are being successful, as they´ve suggested, they can come first once theirs is an already FDA approved medication and device, according to them. But I like the way Histogen treats their “future clients”, much better than Follica does. One thing is for sure: the one who gets it first, this miraculous thing, will make much more money than they even think or hope. We know that many people use what we have available today, basically Rogaine and Propecia only. But much more people don´t spend their money cause they have tried so many things and don´t see any difference… Once there´s a remedy that really works and after this becomes obvious, there will be an earthquake of people going after it; it will be the most looked after “drug” ever in history, no doubt about that!

  • onionbagger

    hi back again .i understand what your saying kk im just looking for a bit of hope so gonna ask a couple of questions,would 56 hairs per cm2 aleast let you buzz cut it so you would not feel tottaly bald,would a combination of a couple of treatments ie histogen and follica get you better results, could you not get a treatment of histogen then get a follow up a year later say when you have some hairs at least to fill in, and lastly i dont consider myself ugly or old for my 37 years in your oppinion what are my chances (not having much hair now) of having at the very least some worthwhile hair before im 45 or do you think i should forget about it

  • Artista

    Onion and all, on a piece of paper draw out a 1 cm or.4 inch square. In that square take a pen or pencil and randomly make 56 dots within the square. I believe 56 hairs wouldn’t be a bad BEGINNING at all.

  • onionbagger

    yeah sure would be better that total bald ive never had much hair since been bout 20 and lived with it ok till now 37 but what i had left just went so im not asking for a full head of hair just enough to carry on as i was so mybe it would be ok.cheers arista

  • derpdader

    onionbagger,
    are you talking 37 years or months? learn how to write dude!

  • gg hazell

    derpdader he said 37 years…hes hardly 37 months old and posting here

  • Maverick

    looooooooool

  • Caddillac

    PLEASE let follica get through phase II trials! Apparently phase 2 is where most products fail due to unseen safety issues in phase 1 or the “product” is unable to reproduce consistent results.

    I have no doubt if histogen gets this to market even at 57 new hairs er cm/2 as long as it is consistent over larger areas( 171 per 3 cm2 etc)many more companies will piggy back off their research-formula and either histogen or another copycat would have increased results very quickly. The further down the road “we” go the better they will understand how to increase densities.

    ESPECIALLY since year 1 in the market histogen would make like a BILLION dollars profit :)

  • KKwilliams

    I wonder on how they plan on mapping out the injection sites.

    for every cm 2 they would need 25 injection sites and they would need to be spaced with extreme accuracy to produce even results.

    take into account the blood from each injection on top of the fact the injections need to be basically 2mm apart and on top of that the average patient would need literally thousands of injections and some needing close to 10 k injections!

    this post is based off the previous data that growth only occurs within 2mm around the injection site. I guess Im getting way ahead of myself lol. hurry up phase II

  • julian

    KKwilliams… C´mon man, let them do their job, please! you´re kind of worrying with something you know nothing about, like most people here by the way. The time will come and it won´t be long. What matters to us is that Follica or Histogen or both launch their medicine, the sooner the better, hopefully this year or the next or 2013. the way it will be used, how many injections, if they will be on the head or on the butt or whatever, I don´t care. I just wanna see this f** s** on the shelves and that´s it, man!!!

  • KKwilliams

    Julian-
    I was unaware that my post wondering about how they will map so many injection sites will cause Histogen to halt their trials. YOU need to relax.

  • Z79

    In the recent trials Histogen injected the testsites with either 1 or 4 injections and the testarea was about 2cm2 (the photographs we have seen). I would like to add that there could be too much focus on the 57 new hairs, this probably correlates to the amount of hair previously lost. For a correct estimation of number of hair a individual would get we should use the percentage given, which is about 25 percent increase of hairs. So if you at baseline have 100 hairs per cm2 you would gain 25 new hairs and if you have 50 hairs at baseline you would gain 13 new hairs. More likely, I believe, than that everyone would grow 50 new hairs regardless of how bald they are.

  • onio

    so z79you are saying this is not for bald people, so we have to look else where for answers maybe follica?

  • julian

    KK, sorry for that but I think this is the least problem once they have a tested and proven treatment, or cure if you prefer, in hands, don´t you think? Aside of that I think your wonderings are more than welcome, and relevant for the discussion. I´m relaxed, pretty much. I´m not bald, not even close to. I just want more hair cause I´ve lost some. But I completely understand and feel the importance and the value of this medicine, the impact it would have in the lives of so many people and I hope so much that it is about to be available.

  • gmonasco

    I agree that in terms of Histogen, the most relevant metric is percentage increase in hairs, not absolute hair count. Also, all the figures mentioned so far are derived from a single injection of a specified dose — as yet we have no idea of the effects of multiple injections and/or varying dosages.

  • Z79

    Onio that is not what Im sayin. Cause I have no idea how goood/bad the final product will be. Repeated injections could turn a Nw6 to a full head of hair, who knows? When phase 2 is over we will know a lot more. But if it isn´t compoundable then frankly I will be dissapointed. But I hope and believe we will see better numbers in phase 2 than 25%.

  • 4thHorse

    The voices in my head may not be real, but they have some good ideas! Some humor to soften the excitement and tension. Believe it, these are some exciting times…..its almost to a point where you can actually count down the months, and when you get to be my age..47-48, the months go by like days…!! So for me I am really looking forward to 2013…counting the months (going by like days) and counting!!

  • lurker

    Anyone have any idea on:

    1) How would Histogen’s product work around the hairline? Please don’t say you’d get a HT there. That’s not what I’m asking. How would it work if you did NOT get a HT.

    2) I’m assuming each injection covers a certain amount of the head. Therefore, the more bald you are the more injections you’ll need. And as such, I’m assuming the more injections the higher the price, right? So this $5K might just be a starting price?

  • FullHead

    Hello all, im assuming you all recently saw the video on the Today show with Mat Lauer, their on site Doctor said Follica findings were good and consist and that a solution would be available in a few years, or is no one beliveing this info, Mat Lauer asked the questions she answered them from the info she got from Follica, so why all the doubt out there.

  • gmonasco

    Dr. Cotsarelis was on the “Today Show” back in 2008, but I’m not aware of his having been on since then.

  • Mino

    That interview took place years ago. Theres doubt because cotsarelis said something would out to market in 5 years back in 2006 if im right and we havent heard anything about there product in years besides them saying there in some kind of trial phase. Im putting my money on histogen

  • KKwilliams

    I LOVE how informed histogen is keeping us of their progress but by no means have I forgotten or given up on Follica.

    Both companies seem to have no issues raising funds from investors so I think overall these are the two front runners. I agree follica being so secretive sucks, but that doesn’t mean they have hit a wall.

    I am trying to stay positive but cautious :) If histogen has great results in Phase II I think everyone on here will upgrade to booking tickets for asia in advance )

  • onionbagger

    hi. when will phase 2 start ,how long is it likely to run?, and when will we see results of phase 2?, what is phase 3? .can anyone shed some light.and if it is as amazing as we all hope wont there be a queue ten mile long for treatment which will be even longer for us all to wait ?or will enough people be trained up quickly enough to treat the masses? will the treatment remain private or will it go mainstream.?

  • Lurker

    Is there a reason its so slow in here?

  • Herzog

    I’ve posted several things that didn’t show up for some reason.

  • iwantsomehair

    Where is ZZ??? I want him to say something!!!!

  • jordan

    Someone posted here saying that in a few weeks Histogen are going to post some results.. Do we have any info on that?

  • julian

    I wanted Follica to say something, iwantsomehair!! something really good of course!!!

  • ZZ

    Nothing really to add at the moment iwantsomehair. I believe its just a waiting game now to see what kind of results we get from all of the clinical trials. I know it seems slow but its really amazing that there are at least 4 in legit clinical trials and I can sense a real race to the next level. Hard to believe we won’t have some kind of good outcome. Here is what I see:

    Histogen – Most likely next generation treatment. On Feb 12, Ziering said they hope to have initial results from the 50+ injection case studies in 4 weeks…that would be tomorrow but it make take them longer to analyze & release them. Results of the full trial before year end. Somewhat leary that this company doesn’t generate more media buzz and has had a tough time raising cash (Pilot results better than any to date and product selectively targets cancer in vitro.) Some of it could be their lawsuit.

    Follica – Could move quicker than expected if results pan out and they pursue Asia.

    Replicel – This is my “most likely home run”. Strong medical team, no problem raising cash…all after watching a relative goliath of a competitor (Aderans) with a purported huge lead in the trial development process. I sense the kind of confidence that tells me this may have been tried on one of the insiders. Should have already re-injected cell culture in first human subject(s) in February so by mid summer at the latest, they should know what they have. Watching the stock as an indicator of things to come.

    Aderans – Making progress and plugging along but known results to date seem to indicate this may be a slow process.

    S-Equol – This is a substance manufactured internally in a % of the population that eat soy. This % has a lower incidence of prostate cancer and theoretically MPB. It binds to DHT and does not affect serum hormone levels. Two companies have figured out how to manufacture it in a bio-available way (Ausio Pharmaceuticals & Pharmavite). Unclear whether it needs FDA approval although Ausio is in Phase II but not for MPB. This could potentially be available quicker than anything as a maintenance tool.

  • Artista

    Great assessment ZZ and I completely concur. It certainly is a ‘waiting game’ at this point with the potentiality of positive outcomes. I must reiterate the word ‘outcomes’. It does seem to be a ‘race’ of sorts for the ‘Big Four’ and thats a VERY GOOD thing.

  • It’sWhatever

    ZZ, Histogen closed their first round of financing in December with 10 million dollars. They already have investors for the second round of investing, which they hope to raise around 25 million.

    Sounds like they’re doing alright to me.

  • ZZ

    It’sWhatever, I also thnk they are fine now in the short term. I was just making the point that as good as they have appeared to be doing on the surface (as good or better than anyone), raising financing has been a struggle. They extended their efforts to close out Series A way back in February of 2009. They had also hired a firm specializing in soliciting venture funds for bio-tech. I’m not sure they ever recieved funding from that sector. I think they ultimately completed Series A with $$ from 2 wealthy individuals as opposed to a biotech fund that might presunably be in a better position to evaluate the research. I’m sure the Skin Medica lawsuit (they had funding pulled as a result of this being filed) plus the fact that the forerunner to Histogen ran out of cash(Advanced Tissue Sciences, which filed for bankruptcy in 2002 after spending 14 years developing living tissue skin patches)are what have been causing the drag. But their core group seems to have hung together thru this on a shoestring, and for sure, these guys are scrappers.

  • Z79

    Daphne Zohar promises more Follica news to come on her twitter! http://twitter.com/daphnezohar

    This could of course mean a boring “more money to follica” update a year from now, but in my naive mind I hope it will be a awesome clinical trial results within a couple of weeks :)

  • gmonasco

    It was the author of the Xconomy article on this page, Ryan McBride, who promised “more to come,” not Daphne Zohar.

  • Z79

    If he writes an article with some substance I´ll be satisfied as well. We have been loyal followers for so long that we deserve to hear what is going on with Follica, where they are at and what they got to show! So Ryan, get them to talk.

  • julian

    where´s everybody? are the drums drumming for Histogen´s news?

  • happy1
  • ZZ

    Adding to your post Happy1, Tricho(Replicel)also announced the completion of their 2.5 mil private placement:

    http://www.replicel.com/pdf/FINAL-Closing-of-$1-00-PP-March-14-11.pdf

    And for another recap on Tricho, their clinical trial posting:

    http://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01286649?term=androgenetic+alopecia&rank=10

    If you are really bored, scroll thru the 27 different trials listed…they are almost all regarding androgenic alopecia, past and present.

  • Artista

    julian, consider this period of time to be an exercise in patience and perseverance. There are better days ahead.

  • Shooter

    What Artista said.

    No, seriously everyone. Listen to what Artista said.

  • Metsie

    TKL is still at it if anybody is interested
    http://www.tklhairloss.com/index.php

  • Z79

    Follica has a new patent! “The invention relates to intermittent lithium treatments, or a single pulse lithium treatment for modulating hair growth in human subjects. Uses of compositions containing compounds that liberate lithium ions are described, including adjuvants and devices for administration.” http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20110317&CC=WO&NR=2011031990A1&KC=A1
    This has to be what the ongoing trial is all about. If lithium is what they are going for (not sure if this is the case since other compounds is mentioned in the abstract), what does that do for market approval time? And what does this treatment do in terms of hair growth?? Pictures follica, pictures!! :)

  • Z79

    Btw, in this particular patent Follica is exploring the possibilities of growing new hair with a cream called Lithioderm 8% which is available in France apparently. So if what they describe in the patent actually provides humans with new terminal hair they probably dont need to go through 10 years of clinical trials for market approval…

  • Lazarus

    Trés interessant….

  • Caddillac

    good find Z79

    I have no idea what significance this might have to be honest. Im guessing this stuff might be used after the follica “treatment” and be used to help boost growth in the immediate time after the main treatment in the clinic (cream for at home use kinda thing)

    I really think we are very much in the dark about follica. Im not saying that is bad. It just sucks knowing so little about what they are working on and if they are having success.

    Wow that 10 year number you just threw out there sucks. Is it really possible follica could still be headed for 10 years of trials? Now people are saying histogens earliest release in Asia has gone from 2013 to 2015 now at the earliest. CANT WE CATCH A BREAK?

  • Shooter

    Great, great find Z79!

    The patent itself has me confused, because it essentially starts off saying that the whole Wnt method was too confusing to work properly. The Follica “treatment” is really nothing more than minoxidil and finasteride administered with a fancy Lithium protocol.

    I have no idea how effective this will end up being, but I can say that it would be RIDICULOUS if this was not on the market within two years. There is absolutely NOTHING new, different, or dangerous about this treatment.

    On one hand, I’m a little let down because it seems like “neogenesis” is not occurring after all, and all this treatment does is increase the efficacy of Rogaine and Propecia. On the other hand, there were a few mentions of adding estrogen to hair follicles in order to make them more “female” and, I guess, exempt from balding.

    What do you guys think? Plenty to discuss now…

  • Shooter

    Btw, here’s the whole patent that Z79 posted on another site: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/WO2011031990A1.html

  • Z79

    Caddillac, maybe I was unclear, what I mean is that there probably is NO need for lengthy trials since this cream already is on the market. And laser/dermabrasion is also something u can have done right now. So the protocol in this patent can easily be copied by anyone. But how effective this treatment will be is anyones guess. Maybe it just ends up with vellus hairs. The ongoing trial will answer this Im sure. Whenever that will finish…

  • Z79

    Actually Shooter, they have a very in depth description for a clinical trial where they do mention follicle neogenesis: PRIMARY ENDPOINT
    [00945] In order to assess the efficacy of topical application of lithium gluconate 8% gel on hair follicle neogenesis in dermabraded sites, a generalized linear model (McCullagh & Nelder, 1989) is estimated for the mean number of neogenic-like hair follicles per Day 17 biopsy site.

  • Caddillac

    what the hell!!

    Am I to understand after all the secrecy and silence from follica all they are now looking into is a dermabrasion and then applying an already on the market(for something else)cream and hoping for the best?

    I really hope I am confused. I was under the impression follica was formulating a cocktail based on all the “breakthroughs” that have been uncovered about how to activate stem cells and all that jazz. Wow this is depressing news :(

    I guess its all up to histogen now because i dont see how some cream will regrow a lot of hair on a bald scalp.

    BUT I THINK WE ARE missing information. Theres no way follica would even bother trying to get to market with a already available cream. how would they even recoup their losses?? People would just go get demabrasion and apply the cream themselves I think

  • onionbagger

    yes i agree caddillac its a big blow one less conpetitor in the race,unless they just feel the need to break there silence but really have something alot bigger up ther sleeves(we hope).

  • jordan

    Who said Histogen has gone from 2013 to 2015? Is this a FACT?

  • Mr. Z

    I think this patent is extremely interesting and holds promise that they are maybe on to a permanent cure for this. Essentially, what they’re saying is that they can, with their wounding technique and selective application of lithium and testosterone/estrogen, reprogram the hair follicle stem cells to take on the characteristics of either balding or non-balding hair follicles. If it works, this is amazing. The simplicity of it is beautiful and gives me hope that this may actually occur sooner rather than later.

    In regards to doubts on how they’ll make money on this, since people could just do it themselves at home. I really don’t agree. I think that the critical aspects of what they’re doing involve the timing of the application of the medications and figuring out how much “disruption” and what the proper effective doses are. It seems like it’s a very fine interplay between all of these factors and getting the balance and timing right for it to spur hair growth is not straight forward. They’ve had a fully stacked research team working on it for years now and still haven’t got it worked out yet. at least that’s how it appears. So, the odds that somebody can do it at home are probably not likely…probably impossible, would be my guess. Follica will be the experts in the process. It will be the process that they license out to doctors who’ll pay a fine price to become versed in the technique.

  • julian

    Guys, I think you´ve not read things right. Follica has stated a long time ago that their medicine was an already in the market – off course they didn´t tell which one it was – and that this would make things a lot easier when the moment to seek FDA approval arrived. So maybe this time is coming now. So, c´mon. It´s awesome news!! cause if it is, things will go really fast!! Hope to see some news on their webpage cause there is nothing about that there yet.

  • A

    Isnt Lithium an anti depressent medication, how ironic, people take lithium because they get depressed about hairloss and when applied to there head it grows it all back lol.

  • lurker

    Can someone explain to me why propecia and rogaine were mentioned with Follica? I thought Follica was going with a topical treatment… as we know, propecia is not topical… and I for one, can’t take it…

    Shooter or someone… help please?

  • Ryan

    I’m not going to jump to any conclusions about what Follica are up to any more, they are always one step ahead anyway. Hopefully there will be more news from them soon, Ryan McBride did mention more to come on his twitter when he mentioned this story so maybe they’re close to releasing a little more information. Sometimes it’s the simplest solutions that are the best.

    I haven’t got time to read the new patent at the moment, are they still planning on using it for permanent hair removal as well?

  • Caddillac

    I apologize for my earlier pessimistic comments. It is just for so long we have been told curing hair loss is such a difficult process. Now to hear that one of my/our big hopes, treatment plan is just using dermabration and a cream.

    I truly have no idea where follica is at this point. sometimes I think they are so secretive because they may be so close and other times I fear they just are having setbacks or have realized their methods arent yielding results.

    Do we have even a soft release date timeframe for follica? or is even that unknown?

  • Shooter

    To be fair caddillac, we (or at least most of us) always knew that Follica’s process involved dermabrasion and a topical cream. That was the only piece of information the company gave way back in 2007 when Cotsarelis’s discovery broke into the news.

  • Herzog

    Yes, Follica has always been clear about this. Dermabrasion followed by a topical.

    They also said years ago that they would be using compounds already approved by the FDA.

    Still, time will tell. Just because they filed a patent doesn’t mean they’re ready to move. It could be a year before more news. I doubt it, but we’ll see.

    I’m just happy to know they’re busy over there.

  • froggy

    Hi,

    Dr Washenik talked about aderans and hair cloning in the Carrousel du Louvre at the international congress reseach against hairloss on 20th march 2011.

    This congress was quickly presented by french tv because of the earthquake and because of military operations in Lybia.

    There was a short video of Dr Washenik and he seems very very very confident despite the fact that he just explained what we all know about Aderans. But I personnaly had the feeling that he wasn’t travelling to Paris for nothing (big news, finding money, finding partners in Europe?).
    I saw a video where Washenik was talking live on web cam with french doctors and french scientists. So I can tell you that he is personnaly in touch with french doctors and with french scientists. Is he preparing a launch in Europe using France as headquarter after a the US launch. Paris is the most accessible town in Europe for many european people because of its geographic position, because of high speed trains and because of one of the biggest airport in the world with direct link to all the biggest european cities. This is why Disney build Disneyland in Paris rather than in spain despite cold weather in winter.

    Also I found this blog: http://blog.norgil.com/
    The problem is that I don’t know if this blog is serious and the article was written before the conference. So…
    But according to this blog Dr Washenik intended to explain this technique in depth and it seems that it is near to be commercialised (but when?).

    Dr Washenik had 30 minutes to talk about Aderans (very short for big news) but it seems that he was the host of the whole conference (because he presented the whole conference).

    So wait and see the next days. But as Dr Washenik doesn’t talk a lot I think that it would be interesting to follow this.

    Again it is a personnal feeling but when I saw this video of Dr Washenik I had a very good feeling and the mood of the video is that it is very serious and that the progress are real.

    Sorry for my bad english.

  • hairquest

    Froggy, could you post the link of the video,please.

  • julian

    Froggy, your english is pretty good and the news you´re giving us are still better!! Hey, things are happening, finally!!! We´re almost there people!!! Be confident and optimistic!!!

  • froggy

    Hairquest

    Like I said it was a very short video on a small french TV show / channel.
    But I found another video(see at 20’22”) still from a small TV show.
    http://jt.france3.fr/1920/
    1) the french doctor is using FUE at the moment (first part of the report)
    2) this french doctor is the one who organised the congress in Paris and he is in touch with Dr Washenik.
    In the first video that i saw the french doctor called dr Washenik. I saw the first video last week and the congress took place march 21th.

    Those videos were made BEFORE THE CONGRESS (like a teaser).
    Basicaly he said the same thing than in the video in tokyo (aderans web site):Aderans will take some hairs in the back multiply some cells that will grow new hairs once injected.

    Like I said dr Washenik doesn’t talk very often and every news are important from such an important company in our hope.
    If there is no big news at the congress I think that there are some interesting signs
    1) Dr Washenik is starting to talk and traveling (Tokyo, Paris etc.)
    2) He is starting to be in touch with foreign doctors.
    3) The study is running for several months and not seems to reduce.
    4) Dr Washenik is starting to talk about the results and is more an more precise about the procedure.

    The congress is not the first subject on our media:
    1) earthquake in Japan
    2) military operations in Lybia where we have send one nuclear aircraft carrier and a lot of jetfighters to protect lybian people with US and UK etc.
    3) we are called to elect some of our local politicians.
    So our media are focused on those important things and they don’t have enough time to talk about hairloss at this time.

    I just post this to inform you and to say stay tuned about this (aderans web site etc.)

  • froggy

    Note that in another video on the blog mentionned on my first post the doctor who organised the congress and who is in touch with dr Washenik in the TV show seems to be very interested about Aderans method.
    At the moment he is using FUE so one of the best method available right now (I guess).
    And I think that he wants to be part of it and be the first doctor in France (maybe in Europe) to use the Aderans method.
    My opinion is that he think that FUE will be a thing of the past and he is preparing himself and his clinic.
    Because once the method available FUE is finish.
    Maybe things are moving. BUT MAYBE.

    I am trying to be as clear as possible. I hope that my posts are easy to read. Sorry I am not english native language.

  • Z79
  • Z79

    Froggy, thank you for your information!
    Since you live in France could you possibly tell me if a cream called Lithioderm is available in France over the counter or if it is a prescription drug? If you (or anyone else for that matter) could direct me to a online shop which sells it I would be even more grateful. I cant seem to find it anywhere. Thank you!

  • froggy

    I forgot to tell you to choose “vendredi 18″ at the bottom of the black frame.
    See at (20’22”)

    Z79
    I’ve never heard about this cream.
    But you need to know that in France the only legal way to have real drugs is from what we call “pharmacie”.
    The “pharmaciens” are doctors specialised in delivery drugs ordered by others doctors.
    The only drugs they are allowed to delivrer without what we call “prescription” (the order delivered by another doctor) are the drugs without big efficacity for exemple minoxidil with a very low dosage 2/3%.
    If you want real drugs (so with potential side effects, let’s say finasterid)you need a prescription from another french doctor. Because you need to be followed (there are side effects and interaction with hormonal system).
    And the delivery of “real drugs” by internet is illegal because the pharmacien have to verify the “prescription”. He verify that you don’t already have a treatment that can be dangerous if taken with the new drug…
    Most of the time you also need an electronic card delivered by our health care system to get the drug from the pharmacien (so that you proof your id and you don’t have to pay or a small part of the amount for comfort drugs).
    So if Lithioderm is a real and powerful drug don’t look in France to get it without being personnaly in France to have an prescription by a doctor.

    Drug delivery is highly controled by our health care authorities.
    I guess it is the same thing in the USA.

  • hairquest

    Merci Froggy!

  • Z79

    Thanks for your reply Froggy!

  • Happy1

    I would exercise caution.
    Lithium is known to cause hair loss.
    If Follica has indeed used it in their testing, it must have employed some specific variant of the substance and the dosage of such. I’m not so sure if getting in a hot hurry after reading a press release to purchase lithium cream over the counter is the best idea.

  • Artista

    Froggy,,thank you for the information. Also,your English is very good my friend..no worries.
    To ‘A’ your comment~”…how ironic, people take lithium because they get depressed about hair loss and when applied to there head it grows it all back lol.” Great humorous observation. We are living in great and interesting times, medically speaking.

  • Artista

    I just watched that video. It is good to see that Dr Washenik is in communication and involved with Dr.s around the globe. By the way ,I was impressed with the French Patient, Gabriel Rubens’FUE-HTs . His doctor did a great job.

  • dave slattery

    Hi, I’m also very excited about this new info. I’ve had 5 hair transplants and my hair isn’t real good. One thing that has helped is j a alternatives in ny. they have something called “interlinx”. they have hair that looks just like my hair, and tie it to the bases of my transplants. it makes my hair much fuller. ALthough it’s expensive, and you have to go every 3-4 weeks to have more hair tied in.

  • Artista

    5 Hts dave slattery? What stage of hair loss have you suffered and at what thickness of hair?

  • Johnny Macenroe

    from what i can see here gentlemen histogen is going to be worth a fortune…they look to be moving in the right direction at a steady pace…

  • igor

    how so. they have not even begun phase 1 trials yet my friends. 10 years at least away from us getting histogen oil

  • julian

    Hey igor, why being so pessimistic? why this fixation with the numbers 5 and 10? why not 3, 2 or 4, or 6, why not 6 months or 8 or 11 or 13? who knows? I think we do have plenty of reasons for being optimistic now. It may not help but being pessimistic won´t either.

  • artista

    Julian,,Time has proven that there will always be pessimism especially related to this topic. I’m not sure that ‘Igor’ has been keeping himself up to date with the information here. No matter..those of us that have been~ know better. Also, i have a strong feeling that Mr ‘Dave Slattery’ is here only to SPAM.

  • dave slattery

    my friend, you need to consider “interlinx” and not treat me as a sales rep. my goal is to help you and others look and feel their best. interlinx has a rapidly growing customer base and stands to overtake hair pieces for many partial loss hair sufferers.

  • Lurker

    I thought Histogen was looking at a 2013 release in Asia? Has something changed?

  • VictimofDHT

    Hi all. Found this site a few weeks back. I am in a very desperate situation. Reading about Histogen kind of gave me some hope especially when I read that they might have something by 2013. But then some people come and say it won’t be in less than 10 years from now. This is wreaking havoc on my nerves. Is there any indication that a release date will be sometime in ’13 ? This has been a roller coaster.

  • Artista

    Victim’ Hang in there buddy. You are not alone in this. There is plenty of empathy here. Nothing has been confirmed as to any release dates,BUT, what we have been learning these past few months have been VERY VERY promising. Histogen will be in Asia(less restrictions) this year to continue their testing research. It seems that the pace has started to pick up with the ‘BigFour’ contenders. Stick around.its an exciting waiting game.

  • VictimofDHT

    Thanks Artista. I know I’m not the only one anxiously waiting for a treatment but my case isn’t the average case (of suffering). I know this probably isn’t the place to discuss this but I’m just going through hell right now and I’m losing my mind. My only remaining hope is that one of these companies come up with something hopefully soon. I was literally counting the days until 2013 but looks like nothing’s for sure.

  • rev

    We’ve all gone through hell my friend, but I promise you it will get better. Aderans and Histogen keep floating dates between 2013 and 2015. Heck, even Follica might pull-through for us as well.

    I realize that it sucks to be bald or balding, but you’re not alone. Look around you next time you’re out; we’re everywhere.

  • Artista

    Rev is right. It will get better. Hopefully sooner than expected. When i look around and I see a bald or balding man I always say to myself~~~~~~~”I feel your pain brother”
    Remember how shocking it was to see what had happened to Peter Frampton’s mane?

  • julian

    Dave, I think nobody here wants a wig Ok?! so don´t push it, please! let´s wait and see what happens, and it´s not impossible that it happens before 2013 mates!! good news are coming. We´re really close to getting rid of baldness, believe it!!!

  • Rafael

    Hi, guys. From years 2000 – 2010 many expected some kind of “cure” or better solutions than propecia and rogaine. But ten years passed and nothing happened. Now we are here again with new hopes (histogen, aderans, hair clonning, acell etc). Well, my question is: comparing to the hopes of last decade, are things different now? I mean, what are the chances of putting our hands on Histogen, for example, in the next 3-5 years? Aren´t we again just recreating the hope atmosphere and fooling ourselves? Please, undesrtant that i´d sell my house to to get anything that could reverse my hair loss (20 years living this hell), but are there really cientific evidences to believe that all the talk will not turn into more frustration? Sorry for the bad english.

  • Artista

    Rafael the short answer to your question is–
    Y E S

  • Rafael

    YES for which of them? Histogen? Before 2015? What about the Singapure tests, what are the recent news? The good thing is that these guys went to Asia to make things faster, but it´s been 6 weeks since Dr. Craig Z. talked about Histogen at The Bald Truth.

  • Artista

    Singapore is happening in the Fall months of this year. Based on the info we have discussed here, Histogen seems to be the leader of the ‘Big Four’ BUT, that is not an absolute. At this point anything can happen. These companies I feel are keeping their cards close to the chest. only showing info they will allow. They are all at the cusp of something unique and potentially PROFITABLE. Be resilient my friend.

  • Rafael

    Thanks for the answer, Artista. I have lived really bad days because of hair loss and also for all the frustration waitting for some solution to help us. And every year hairs get thinner and thinner, making the hairs from 1 HT on the temples become visible. This nightmare never ends.

  • Zarko

    Hey guys.

    What about those pictures from Histogen?
    They said it would be available in a month.
    So, where are they? I am not sure if 30 days are passed or not.
    Keep faith up guys.

  • Shooter

    Zarko, remember that Dr. Z promised pictures – NOT Histogen. He does not work for the company, he is just an advisor who oversees clinical studies. Just because he made a commitment does not mean that Histogen has to honor it.

    That being said, we should give them some time to gather the results and prepare them for the general public. It has been more than 30 days, btw, so hopefully the waiting will end soon.

    (On another note: Is anyone else nervous that the exploratory case studies won’t yield the same results as the initial trial?)

  • KKwilliams

    ” (On another note: Is anyone else nervous that the exploratory case studies won’t yield the same results as the initial trial?)”

    100%!!!!!!!!!
    Lots of people have pointed out that the initial studies results that kept being quoted were probably of the best patient and did not really give a “real” picture of the results.

    lots of people keep forgetting it wasnt even a phase 1 set of trials. I believe the upcoming phase 1/2 trails beginning in the spring(end of may I hear)results will, if published as openly as histogen has been so far will REALLY let us see how far along we actually are.

    It will show much more than a handful of initial trials patients and give us a much more comprehensive look at what results the average guy could get from this treatment.

    so much of the day to day ‘heartbreak/excited were cured’ roller-coaster that happens on here is all in our heads and is set off by the smallest press release or patent application.

    I think after phase 1/2 trials of hsc that will change as we will know if histogen is dead or has improved its results and plans to try phase 3.

    any ideas when the phase 2 results could be released? 1 year? less? Im assuming it cant be super long if they are aiming for 2013 release.

    I was a bit all over the place with that post lol )

  • Shooter

    I obviously have no idea when Histogen is planning to receive Phase 1/2 results, but if they follow the same protocol as their initial study, they should publish some pictures after 3, 6 and 12 months.

    I personally think that the exploratory cases that *should* be published soon, will provide a good indication of what Phase 1/2 will yield because they are doing 50 injections (not just 1 or 2).

    Guess we’ll have to wait and see.

  • VictimofDHT

    Thank you guys. Like I said I understand I’m not the only one in this but in my situation the pain and suffering is x a trillion. I’ve gone through 5 transplants over the past 12 years and spent over $21,000 -not counting interest- and it’s all for nothing. I’m now losing most of transplanted hairs once again and when I went to see the doctor about a month ago to see if there was an explanation I was told I seem to have a rare condition that causes the transplanted hairs to eventually die !! I was told only a handful of people seem to have it and I seem to be one of the “lucky” ones ! I feel I could die from anger and sadness. I literally feel pain in my heart. That’s why I’m so anxious and desperate for some good news. The pain is just unbearable. I hope they don’t disappoint us once again or say the same thing they’ve been saying for the past 20 years – in the next 10 years….. I don’t know what I’d do.
    That’s my situation.

  • Rafael

    KKwilliams,

    You remembered us that the initial studies results that kept being quoted were probably of their best patient. I suppose it´s a negative point for the next trials, am i right?

    What are the implications of it?

    Thanks

  • Lowlow

    Man i’m sorry to hear of your situation. Five hair transplants is some torture, physical and psychological. That is very tough going on you. Try and hang in there as best you can. I agree that there will be some form of a cure in the near future and that it will be tweaked and improved on as time goes by. The problem is that the wheel seems to be turning so so bloody slowly and that the FDA is a beuracratic nightmare when the finish line might eventually be on the horizon. Histogen’s recent silence concerns me, although it still is everyone’s big hope and would be the ideal choice of method. Ziering (“Doc Z” as he signed himself)was very active and informative on another forum even replying to regular poster’s queries and giving a very optimistic interview on air but he has been very quiet as of late having promised to show overdue exploratory results of HSC. I hope my concerns are misplaced and that we’ll hear from him any day now. I do not know what the hell to make of Follica to be honest. I thought that was the real dark horse in the race for me and that Costarelis and the company were just playing their cards very close to their chest, especially with FDA clearance out of the equation. Who knows. To me there just isn’t enough competition to get over the finish line first with an effective treatment. Who would have thought growing bloody hair could be so complicated in 2011 with all of our medical advancements.

  • tk

    Just wondering about people here… Who will be flying to Asia to get HSC done if it’s out in 2013? I will certainly be going there. Maybe we could rent a flat somewhere and hang out in Singapore until we grow our hair back.
    I’m hopeful, guys. HSC looks more than legit. And the hair it will create will be far more realistic than any HT. It’s gonna be like comparing a 3D Plasma HDTV to a black and white 14″ CRT.

    And remember it’s Friday! Someday we can have our hair back and we gonna party and have fun fun fun fun fun!

  • Herzog

    I’ll be the first in line to fly to Singapore. Definitely.

  • FullHead

    As an outsider to this site i read/see alot of pain being expressed.

    LIVE YOUR LIFE TO THE FULLEST, BE CONFIDENT, STAND TALL, WORK ON YOURSELF IF YOU NEED WORK, NO HIDING.

    Some of the posters on here have to look at things differently, if you dont, you wont be alive to see the promise land.

    Let me ask you this, would you rather be healthy/confident/positive attiude NOW and one day going forward grow new hair or would you want to be low self esteem/miserable/no confidence and then get hair?

    Do things right and in the right order. If you think having hair one day will change y our life i belive your mistaken, you need the goods underneath the hair to have the complete package to present to the world.

    One day you will be able to grow new hair, in the mean time keep movin on and dont stop and keep your godam head high!!

  • Shooter

    Fullhead, that’s great advice.

    tk, HAHAHAHAHAHA! I hate that stupid song!

  • VictimofDHT

    Thanks lowlow. Yup. 5 HTs are torture but to know that they’re going to be for nothing is even more so. I don’t think there’s a word that can describe how I feel now.
    Yeah, it really suck that in 2011 we still don’t have a cure for this curse called baldness. I mean they can change the sex of people but they can’t grow hair !! WTF !

    If Histogen is actually successful I’ll be flying to Singapore the next day. There’s no question about that. I actually was wondering if they were looking for subjects to do their experimentation on. I wish I would’ve known about this before.

    Fullhead, easier said than done.If it were that easy nobody would be suffering in this world. Somethings you can control and somethings you can’t. Unfortunately for some of us the psychological effects of losing hair are devastating and even paralyzing. If you are lucky enough to be one of the people who aren’t affected to the same degree some of us are then that’s good for you. My brother doesn’t give a damn about losing his hair. I wish I could say the same thing about me but the simple fact is that every body reacts differently to certain things in life.

  • rev

    HSC Question & Answer Session with Histogen CEO Dr. Gail K. Naughton
    —————————————————————————–

    Q: The Phase I/II clinical trial of HSC will begin in Singapore this Spring. How will the design of this trial differ from the pilot clinical trial?

    A: Like the pilot trial, the Phase I/II will focus on safety and efficacy in the application of HSC as an injectable for hair growth, but this trial will also begin to examine dosing and delivery. As such, the trial design includes a larger number of injections per treatment site, as well as a second treatment timepoint, to determine if this further enhances the results.

    In addition, the Phase I/II will be a dual-site trial with a larger number of subjects (50), which will provide us will more significant safety and efficacy data.
    —————————————————————————–

    Q: Why has Histogen chosen to perform this clinical trial in Singapore? Will there be trials in other countries as well?

    A: A number of countries in Asia, including Singapore, have become leading global centers for advanced aesthetic medicine. By performing the trial in Singapore, we are able to work with experts in the hair restoration industry while pursuing opportunities to bring HSC to market sooner.

    After a successful Phase I/II trial, we plan to conduct a 250 patient study in 5 countries in Asia, which can lead to Pan-Asian (excluding Japan) approval.

    Regulatory requirements for clinical trials and approval in Singapore and Pan-Asia are very similar to the US and Europe, and their regulatory agencies are highly regarded worldwide. Histogen continues to work with the FDA in parallel to the Singapore trial, and hopes to be able to utilize the data gained from the Phase I/II within its US FDA Investigational New Drug (IND) submission.

    Future clinical studies of HSC in other countries are also likely. We look forward to getting the upcoming trial underway, and to further evaluating potential design and locations for studies including a pilot evaluation of HSC for diffuse hair loss in women.
    —————————————————————————–

    Q: How does HSC work?

    A: When grown under proprietary conditions of very low oxygen and suspension, human newborn dermal cells act as they would in the embryonic environment, becoming stem cell-like and producing proteins that are embryonic in nature. The soluble complex of cell-signaling proteins produced through this process becomes HSC.

    HSC contains a number of proteins, including follistatin, VEGF and KGF, which have been shown by leading research to be involved in hair growth, maintenance, and in the development of new hair follicles. These proteins signal existing follicles to produce new hair, and stimulate stem cells in the scalp to become brand new hair follicles.
    —————————————————————————–

    Q: How does Histogen plan to bring HSC to market?

    A: As with all of its product applications, Histogen seeks to bring HSC to market through partnerships and licenses with global industry leaders. While HSC continues to be Histogen’s lead product application, the embryonic-like soluble proteins and insoluble extracellular matrix produced through our technology process have numerous therapeutic applications. Research to date in areas such as cancer and medical device coatings have yielded very exciting results, and Histogen’s expertise lies in the development of products to meet medical needs.
    —————————————————————————–

    Q: Histogen has recently opened a Series B financing round. What will this financing be used for, and who are Histogen’s investors?

    A: Histogen’s $23M Series B round of financing was opened in December 2010, and will be utilized to fund clinical trials of HSC through market launch in Asia, continue development of our oncology program, and upscale manufacturing to meet regulatory requirements and future commercial needs. As with our first round of financing, Histogen is seeking a limited number of accredited investors for the Series B, which we hope to bring to a close this Spring.
    —————————————————————————–

  • Artista

    Rev,
    Since that interview, the clinical trials had been pushed back to the Fall of 2011 if im not mistaken. Thanks for the posting. This reminder will bring some comfort to those here that have been sitting on the edge of their seats. Chin up ‘Victim’, you will have your day.

  • rev

    hmmm. I thought the trials were pushed from early February to late May.

  • Artista

    Rev you may be right.
    We need clarification on this

  • A

    Trials are in May.

  • tk

    I thought they had already started trials. Where does that 57 hairs/cm2 number come from?

    It’s exciting that they will also test the cumulative effect of repeat treatments. I think that it might be the most important aspect of the trials. If it works, then the only thing standing between you and a full head of hair is money and time.

    2 years isn’t so long guys. Start saving now!

  • c

    Hi,

    how much hairs/cm2 you get with transplants?

  • VictimofDHT

    Thanks Artista.
    Hopefully we hear good news soon.

  • Maverick

    @VictimofDHT

    I am not trying to be “smartypants” but have you considered the possibility of trying that new Acell Matristem? So far I have seen that it does wonders with scars and donor non DHT affected hairs. Even that Rassman dude who is really hard on all new inventions, experiments with Acell, Bernstein too. I know this is maybe not too much, but I believe that you can at least do some research about it(if you haven´t already). Heads up.

  • hairpaper

    Does anyone have the links to Histogen’s key patent(s)?

  • VictimofDHT

    Maverick, I don’t even know what that is. What’s that supposed to do ? I just did a little bit of reading on it and wasn’t really much to that stuff. It helps with the scar in the donor area or something.

    Any word yet from Histogen ? Should we be expecting some news this May ?

  • ZZ
  • Artista

    Good article ZZ.
    About this statement~”Though the company has said it’s doing human testing overseas..”
    I dont remember ever hearing that FOLLICA declared that they have been testing overseas as well. Of course one could assume that it was going on but here is a statement of fact. As i have said, they most certainly are keeping their cards very close to their chest.

  • ZZ

    Artista, In the article at the top of this blog dated 1/4/11 it says “An overseas human clinical study of Follica’s drug-device combo treatment for baldness is under way, Ju says.” What I like most about this new piece is that it appears that they are working at this from several angles at the same time: “We have a variety of programs, both pre-clinically and clinically, to investigate how we can get hair to grow”.

  • Artista

    Oh my,,i overlooked that segment or forgot all about it. Thanks ZZ for pointing it out. They,Follica, are very busy it seems. More so than most thought.

  • Lowlow

    Hmm… ‘a variety of programs’. That, to me at least, does not sound very encouraging I’m afraid. Please don’t accuse me of being overly negative; it is just that I had hoped that Follica were more clued in and following a definite line. That’s why I presumed was the reason they were being so quiet and cagey. I know that it could be argued that with a variety of programs they may eventually make progress with one but it also smacks of uncertainty to me and that they are not sure in which direction to concentrate. Me not happy:-(, but I hope I am very wrong!!

  • VictimofDHT

    Come on guys, it’s been a couple of days and no one has said anything.

  • rev
  • Amy Gorden

    I hope they do find a cure for male pattern baldness, i know a lot of people could benefit from it. http://about-hair-loss.net/