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Follica Gets New CEO, Gears Up for More (Hair and Business) Growth

Xconomy Boston — 

Follica, the Boston-area startup out to bring a scientific approach to helping hair-loss sufferers re-grow their locks, is preparing for some new growth of its own. The firm, run since its late 2006 inception by founding CEO Daphne Zohar of Boston’s PureTech Ventures, announced today the hiring of a new president and CEO, William Ju, a biopharmaceutical veteran with experience in an array of therapeutic arenas, including dermatology (he is a board certified dermatologist). The selection of Ju seems to position the firm to move out of the purely research-focused stage and closer to becoming a drug development company.

“There’s just a lot of excitement with regard to the science, and to the progress that’s been made,” Ju says of Follica’s work to date. “When I heard about the opportunity, I was really delighted with it, given my background as a dermatologist, given what I think is really breakthrough research.” And he says he looks forward to “bringing the company through to its next developmental stages.”

For her part, Zohar put it this way in a statement: “We are thrilled to welcome Bill Ju as the CEO of Follica. He brings the ideal blend of dermatology and drug development experience, creativity and leadership skills to Follica in this next exciting phase of development.”

What, exactly, Follica’s next step is—and when it will occur—is of intense interest to many of Xconomy’s readers, who struck up an often-spirited conversation on the site after we reported Follica’s $5.5 million Series A round in January 2008 and continued the discussion after the startup’s $11 million Series B funding last August. A lot of the talk in these comments has been centered on a 15 to 20 patient proof of concept study that Follica launched to put its follicle-generating approach to the test. Zohar confirmed the study’s existence last August, but the company has not provided other details on its progress—other than to stick to a general timeline laid out in January 2008 that no results would be available for at least a year. Depending on how you count, and when exactly the trial began, that year is either up or close to being up.

Which might or might not have something to do with Ju’s hiring. When I asked him about the trial, Ju, who started on May 1 and is still getting up to speed, was understandably vague. “The trial is ongoing. The trial is going well,” he says. “Once I get a chance to evaluate that, I’ll have a better sense.” He did add this: “I’ve certainly been pleased with the way things are going…A lot of it is really getting into the details and confirming from a quality perspective what you see with regard to the data points.”

He brushed over discussion of any plans for a bigger trial.

Ju spoke in more detail, however, about other aspects of the company’s progress—including its move to new locations in Philadelphia and the Boston area. But before picking that up, here is some background, in case you aren’t up to speed on the company.

Follica was formed in late 2006 by PureTech Ventures, a venture-creation company that identifies a market need and puts together a company to meet it. In this case, PureTech has claimed that treatments for conditions of the follicle make up a $10 billion-plus annual market. In addition to androgenic alopecia—the extremely common form of hair loss best known as male pattern baldness or female pattern baldness—these conditions include acne, excessive hair growth, and other disorders.

PureTech’s idea was to bring a scientific approach to such problems. Follica was builtaround a high-profile group of researchers that includes University of Pennsylvania stem cell biologist George Cotsarelis, Harvard Medical School dermatologist Rox Anderson, and Vera Price, director of the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF) Hair Research Center, among others. And as I explained in my last story: “At the root of Follica’s approach to hair loss is Cotsarelis’s discovery (made after the company was formed) that when the skin’s uppermost layers are removed some cells within the wound revert to a more basic state from which they can develop into either skin or hair-and that he could actually direct cells in this ’embryonic window’ to form new hair follicles. Follica licensed that research and has since developed the work further and filed additional patents to protect the technology.”

Cotsarelis’ work is what particularly appealed to Ju, whose most recent job was as chief operating officer of New Jersey-based PTC Therapeutics (before that, he was an R&D executive at Pharmacia and worked at Merck Research Laboratories and Hoffmann-La Roche). “I was fascinated by what I considered the breakthrough science and the tremendous potential of the technology,” he says. “I’d like to really build on that rigorous scientific approach, and then to continue to evaluate it, move it along the development value chain, and then based on that come out with approaches to treating skin that are rigorous in terms of their effectiveness and safety and provide something that is clinically meaningful to patients.”

The new Follica CEO is still working out of New Jersey—and says he isn’t sure where he will set up shop. He could choose either of the two locations where Follica now has operations. The first, in Waltham, MA, houses the contingent of the company that used to work in PureTech’s Boston offices and is spearheaded by VP and head of operations Scott Kellogg. Follica’s research operation, meanwhile, has relocated from the University of Pennsylvania campus—Cotsarelis’s home—into an incubator space in Philadelphia. That branch is staffed by Stephen Prouty, VP and head of research, and three research associates.

“We’ve kept our pre-clinical group down in Philadelphia,” he says, because Cotsarelis is the “heart and soul of the science of the company.”

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  • G

    Alright my fellow balding men, lets bring the bickering over to this page now. I’m tired of scrolling down 1800+ posts everyday – probably the highest number of comments any xconomy article has ever received. :)

  • Bob

    I really need a cure within 2-3 years!!! I’m sick and tired of feeling inadequate bacause of my thinning.
    They said they were going to reach market within 2-3 years 2 years ago and nothing new has been heard from them. However, it is good news that they get a new CEO who has past experience worthy of mentioning. I can’t believe they haven’t cured hair loss yet. It is sickening to think of how many young men and women go around having hell because of simply bad genetics.

    So please!! a cure!!!

  • Artista

    *G funny my friend. I really hope that the bickering doesnt continue. It seems A and R are off on a tangent about Propecia usage,,yet again. Although i feel the focus should be on the latest developments with Follica and the like, their debate doesnt bother me. As long as it doesnt get immature or insulting. Bob, you are not alone my friend. Hang in there because we WILL be seeing something of huge interest this year.

  • Artista

    by the way Daphne Zohar is STILL GORGEOUS!!!!!!hehehee

  • JimQ

    Bob… I don’t think we’ll see a “cure” in 2-3 years. Maybe a treatment that is marginally better than what is out now, but not a cure. Remember, there’s no money in a cure. As Chris Rock says, drug dealers make their money on the comeback. The more treatments you need, the more money they make.
    I think hairloss is one of those things, like psoriasis and acne, that is considered by most to be “tough luck”; something that people should just shut up and deal with. I’m sure Follica would like to make a lot of money, and the market is definitely there, but I just don’t see it happening.
    Sorry for the pessimism.

  • Bob

    Artista, yea I have heard that this year something will happen. Probably something new from Follica will come through.

    JimQ, I don’t agree. Hairloss will happen to 50% of the male population and I think 20-30% of the female. They will have a continous source of income. Most people are not on medicine at the moment and very few people get a HT because of the poor results. There is indeed room for a CURE and the one who reaches it first will have found a great source of income for their venue in an indefinite future. The CURE for hairloss is needed, people crave it, there is a huge market for it and it is about time something comes through finally. ICX are moving forward, we have Histogen making progress and Aderans are in ph2 for their HM and then there is Follica and PRP. There are many things out there. The question is, which one will come through first as a cure. They are all within 5-10 years of reach too.

    I’m on fin, I will probably keep what I have for some years to come but I hate eating a pill and I hate the side effects so I want something better, something that will grow back what I have lost.

  • Artista

    JimQ,
    youll never see me say there will be a cure because technically there wont be. Not unless you would subject yourself to being genetically mutated in the future. It is MPB treatments that are on the verge of breakthroughs. Bob,,your right as i said hang in there.

  • Metsie

    What they said in the article I find curious. “In that position, Dr. Ju played an important role in successfully leading and building the company from a discovery organization into a late-phase clinical and early-stage commercialization company.”
    Any way you look at it sounds like they are on the right path and the trials have to be going well.
    A cure wouldnt be so bad for them. Genitics will always provide a new generation of customers.

  • TheOne

    Metsie that quote refers to the previous company Dr Ju worked for.

  • D

    man I’m too young for this sh*t…dudes my age are chasing girls while I’m chasing my hair =\ lol

  • rev

    I used to get excited by this stuff.

  • R

    Due to the $70 Billion earnings that could be obtained in one or so in a year, the prospects of haphazardly obtaining a lack-luster treatment wouldn’t vibe for the Internet savy audience. You see, Follica, if successful would be able to treat those people that refuse to do anything about hair loss. Such an audience brings in a multitude of billions. HT’s and drugs we have today are falling in revenue as people are accepting hair loss. The only way to succeed with a product is to create one that surpasses the current line of products.

    BTW…A…I am done commenting on your childess remarks and ask that you bring substance to the forum or just leave. Your contribution are not showing evidence or pathways to real science or knowlege. If would try the MPB website products, you may be suprised of the outcome.

  • JimQ

    # Artista
    5/13/09 1:19 pm

    JimQ,
    youll never see me say there will be a cure because technically there wont be. Not unless you would subject yourself to being genetically mutated in the future. It is MPB treatments that are on the verge of breakthroughs. Bob,,your right as i said hang in there.

    Exactly. A cure is a one time and you’re done thing, as opposed to “treatments” that have to be used continuously.
    HM, if it works, is a “Cure”. Unlimited donor hair is a cure, because once that DHT-safe hair is there, it isn’t going anywhere, and you don’t need poison to keep it there.

  • OS

    That shit aint ever going to happen guys, get over it already

  • R

    There will not be a cure under the same mindset and financial greed. But, anything is possible and if you need only one application then we are damn close to cure or at least a treatment with excellent results. Reserschers that trully want to cure this will due to the continuous evolution and speed of science., Everyone forgets one main theme with hair loss. Nobody ever really tried, really ever tried to end this until now.

  • OS

    R, we both know that ddep down you agree with my thoughts!!! so dont play it like you belive something will come out of all of that!

  • will

    i think there will be a cure. I mean there will always be a market for it. It would be equivalent to wearing braces.

  • will

    haha i wish we can get real information instead of negativity or overly optimistic opinions. I’m sure that the hair loss cure isn’t right around the corner, but there is one reason why it will soon market, money. These companies trying to stop this thing are not doing it because they care about us. They want us to be insecure about it so when they do find the cure we’ll pay any amount for it. So believe in a cure, but dont believe it will be cheap.

  • R

    OS… you and everyone here and out there don’t have a clue about any breakthrough that will or will not enter the market. Nobody here has any idea other share data that is presented to us by the media or scientist. When I provide insight it is based on personal experience and or literature that will allow all of you to make a decision on your hair care approach and nothing else.

    Now…never have anyone trully put THE PROPER FINANCES toward hairloss treatments or cures of this maginitude. NEVER!!! And the reason today for the effort is that the Internet is exposing fraudulant and useless products and that the fact that people are accepting hair loss more and more.

  • will

    I agree R and thank you for keeping us updated on recent updates. Yah i don’t understand the point of being pessimistic. Nothing productive can amount from pessimism. There is no need for displacement shifting your frustration with your hair loss and tryin to make other people feel bad. There is hope because this is a great way for companies to make money.

  • Nature

    Hi all,

    jsut want to say… it WAS a great site to see advance in MPB, before everyone get mad about every single thing. But sometimes, we see good thing in here and thanks for that.

    I look at the site of R, and i think its a good way to look if you got patience. I want to give it a try, but before a do that i want to know if anyone got information about ”hair follicles in a sleep state ”. I cant find any good explanation about this. For example i loose my haire for about 5 year, and maybe 7 in the region of the temple. My hair are in a sleeping state are just dead…. or its depend ???

    Thanks for your help guys, and stop ”bitching”… this is a great site.

  • Artista

    Nature,
    research has found that the hair you have ‘lost’ due to MPB can actually be coaxed out of ‘sleep state’ using the right medical treatment method which is what some companies are going thru trials to prove out. Ignore the pessimism and rude comments. You will see that anywhere you go in life. It amazes me though that some here would be so resigned to accept that a viable treatment for their MPB isnt around the corner. Why wouldnt it be? Because they have been so disappointed in the past?If so then would be statements made by emotions. There is TRUE research going on boys. Technology in the 21 century.

  • Maverick

    I believe that something is going on positive in hair loss field. Chinese, India, Italy and Japan are galloping fast in medical research so if West fails someone will continue their work in the worst scenario. The only bad thing is this damn recession so funding may be a problem and that means additional years of research. As far as hair loss and dermatology medicine now is at stone age, something will change that is for sure. There are lots of wealthy customers waiting too look at UK prince William, duke of Monace etc.

  • OS

    R, you are a good man!

  • ZZ

    Artista,

    I would add to your last comment this question: Why would someone who is a total non-believer or someone who does not believe that an effective treatment is or might be somewhere around the corner even be checking this site? I would suggest that they have as much hope as we do…..it’s just bottled up behind all of the pessimism.

  • JimQ

    R
    5/14/09 9:30 am

    OS… you and everyone here and out there don’t have a clue about any breakthrough that will or will not enter the market. Nobody here has any idea other share data that is presented to us by the media or scientist. When I provide insight it is based on personal experience and or literature that will allow all of you to make a decision on your hair care approach and nothing else.

    Exactly, R, and neither do you.

  • Deluxe

    Hey all,

    Its been a while… shout out to Arista. So does anyone know what is going on with TRX2 (Thomas Whitfield)? I havent heard of any updates or anything so if anyone knows something, please post here… thanks.

  • R

    Jim Q more than you could imagine due to interviewing and talking and my experiences. Again your contributions and background?

  • R

    here is my scoop on some of the people who attack on this site. 1.) They want you to believe they don’t forsee a cure or treatment in our lifetime. Why are they here??? 2.) They take quotes from us (me) and forget to add the reason for the quote on previous comments. For example, the propecia scenerio was in part to state that a blanket statement is careless and the drug works and has for me but with dangerous side effects. I have tried the MPB website supplements with great results.

    3.) They attack for amusement but contribute nonthing. I never stated that I knew everything just have more facts and spoke w/ Cotsarelis and I am telling you that we are approaching a great outcome in our lifetime.

    4.) You need to contribute and or please show that I know everything in your words. My quotes and provided links can be proven by you with the proper research. Many of you who are throwing negative remarks won’t even research and still compare today’s science w/ yesteryears. Please leave as your are right a cure will never happen.

    I bet you will be here everyday again and again w/o research or a backbone to solidify your standing w/ said comments. You can bring my prior posts to show my comments and please provide the reason for the comments based on other’s responses. If you are going to challenge me please be honest.

  • Jim

    Glad everyone followed the very first post on this article. Why don’t we go to the hairloss sites to argue about whether or not there will be a cure or treatment and leave this site to actual information about Follica?

  • Artista

    Hey Deluxe. Was wondering when you would eventually contribute again.
    At present its all a ‘sit on our hands and wait’ period of time in re to TRX2.
    Jim, Which hairloss site would you suggest being that there are a number of them ?
    Until Follica presents their latest findings i do not see the harm in ppl speaking their minds and expressing their feelings here,, do you?

  • Chris

    Just wanted to say that this is my first post and I appreciate all of the information that I’ve gotten through this thread. I love that it’s so active but it also seems that there is a lot of unnecessary bickering. I definitely don’t want to preach and I am new to this “forum” but I just want to try to politely ask that people not waste their time arguing with eachother. I see people making stabs at eachother constantly and it’s a shame because I look forward to activity on these sites and am disappointed when I see that although there have been posts…it’s mostly immature back-and-forth nonsense. I feel bad…I’m sure everyone on this site has had their hair-loss effect them in a tremendous way but let’s be good people. How we treat one another is a more important quality than our hair…and even though it doesn’t feel like that…it is true. Everyone here would love to see something to better treat our hair loss and would to see that as soon as possible. We want effective and we want it quickly but…remember we’re all in the same boat. This thread is dedicated to research so saying that it will never happen provides nothing useful. To the negative people…you may be right…but I hope you’re wrong and you yourselves hope you’re wrong inside, because you have hairloss and it has affected you in a negative way. That is why you are here. Please let us work together with what little we can do and support one another rather than tear eachother apart. I hate losing hair but the behavior and attitudes I’ve seen on this forum (and others) make me feel literally sick in my stomach and just plain disturbed. That is not meant as an insult to anyone….just a sincere plea that this childish behavior will end. Thanks for your time guys.

  • MMA

    Hey Guys!! its been a long time since my last post. I´ve been colecting all the Ju´s news, this one it´s short but describes Ju´s succesfull management. I trust this guy !!
    http://www.masshightech.com/stories/2009/05/11/daily35-William-Ju-takes-CEO-post-at-Follica.html

  • Maverick

    “Hi all,

    jsut want to say… it WAS a great site to see advance in MPB, before everyone get mad about every single thing. But sometimes, we see good thing in here and thanks for that.

    I look at the site of R, and i think its a good way to look if you got patience. I want to give it a try, but before a do that i want to know if anyone got information about ”hair follicles in a sleep state ”. I cant find any good explanation about this. For example i loose my haire for about 5 year, and maybe 7 in the region of the temple. My hair are in a sleeping state are just dead…. or its depend ???

    Thanks for your help guys, and stop ”bitching”… this is a great site.”

    Hair follicles actually die, but in old age. Personally I think that hair multiplication is great as they take hair follicles from lower back of your head, the toughest ones that last really for a lifetime, no one ever lost hair from lower back of his head. What bothers me is that if someone is on finasteride/dutasteride and one day gets an HM surgery his remaining hair that was on fin/dutas will fall out since he will probably stop taking pills and he will need another HM to fill the gaps. The big question stands, to take fin/dutas or just let the hair that is meant to go, to go and one day get a fresh one 100% DHT resistant? Logically that would reduce costs.

  • R

    My opinion is too take the natural approach and avoid HT’s and HM until proven or perfected by the creation of additional hair. Elaine Fuchs stated that the hair follicles don’t die and are sleeping needing a signal to be turned up (like a speaker) to amplify the hairs to grow. That is why her experiment showed that strong anti-inflammatory’s regrew heads of hair on people who were in their senior year and suffered hair loss for most of their life.

    I agree the bickering is over and the facts can researched by concerned party members. Remember the use of propecia can cause gyno (bitch tits) in men close 40% of the time. The data is out there and everyone be warned. If you get gyno..the cost is $4500 – $10,000 to remove by surgery.

    Also, since hair loss is accepted, just work out and live w/o worrying about anything more than being happy. I know..that is my take and I have had HT’s and even though the results were good, if I had a choice I would opted out. My take!

  • Artista

    Chris thank you for the positive contribution. Hopefully it sinks in to all of us.
    MMA
    Glad to read Dr Ju’s positive review within the link you provided and also the confidence you have for the man. It does denote a step forward for Follica. Good things are to come for that company AND for all of us,just a little more patience guys.

  • Maverick

    “I agree the bickering is over and the facts can researched by concerned party members. Remember the use of propecia can cause gyno (bitch tits) in men close 40% of the time. The data is out there and everyone be warned. If you get gyno..the cost is $4500 – $10,000 to remove by surgery.”

    Gyno is a “small” side effect. What about “love tools”, liver and kidney damage, sperm count, possible deformed child etc. ?

  • will

    How is the Histogen case going? Do you think Histogen’s results from the their first phase was very positive? Why is follica not showing anything or keeping us updated?

  • will

    What is happening with Histogen? Do you think the results from Histogen’s phase 1 were very positive? Has Intercytex found someone to take them over? And why is follica not releasing anything? Haha a lot of questions,I know.

  • James

    Will..

    Histogen will be reasing pre-clinical data anyday now do not be suprised if you see it come monday. The fact they want to share it so early on is only a sign of progress and an emphasis on a genuine scientfic treatment designed for hairloss. I have been in contact with Histogen and i am personally expecting results on the 20th of May.

    Another note to consider is that the trial actually concluded a month ago, the longer they leave the release the data the closer it gets to the ISHR Hair meeting, so they may be saving there results to make an impact at this conference in June.

    People have also been speculating on the results of Follica….lets see

    Preclinical development company + Breakthrough treatment + proof of concept (trials were successful) = Needs a CEO that can get it on the market

    There trial concluded theoretically based on a rough time line mean the conclusion of the the pre-clinical trial co-incides with the appointment of there new CEO …… Uncanny

    So….

    No news is good news, this appointment reflects a very postive buisness case!
    Histogen will release proof of concept but hold onto your hourse because that won’t be out for 5 years!
    Aderans are in phase II
    Intercytex are developing proto hairs now

    James out!

  • will

    james i like you. You’re a good man my friend,good man.

  • m

    good stuff

  • Maverick

    Histogen results were probably the best so far but I´ve read about those wnt proteins not to be taken easily as they can also cause cancer. So their 2015 year of release makes sense, they need to test ReGenica in details.

  • JimQ

    R
    5/14/09 9:26 pm

    Jim Q more than you could imagine due to interviewing and talking and my experiences. Again your contributions and background?

    I don’t know a damn thing, but unless you work for Follica, ICX, Aderans, or Histogen, I can’t imagine you know much about the progression of their research. You accuse others who are pessimistic (realistic) of not knowing anything, but I can’t imagine you know much more.
    Who have you interviewed? Who have you talked to? What experiences could possibly shed light on the progress of those companies research?
    These companies are trying to bring products to market in a heavily regulated industry. It takes a long time.

  • JimQ

    Everyone here knows that Zohar is connected to xconomy, and therefore this site is sort of a commercial for her company, right?

  • JimQ

    3.) They attack for amusement but contribute nonthing. I never stated that I knew everything just have more facts and spoke w/ Cotsarelis and I am telling you that we are approaching a great outcome in our lifetime.

    Ok, if you spoke with Cotsarelis, then maybe you do have inside info. My bad. He definitely would know.

  • R

    I have been much longer than you and kept the pace of this site the opposite of the others. You demand miracles today and I have always stated patience. This site does not your attitude and you must change or leave. My conversations are relayed and the total picture is that everything is on track and will be sooner than later…ie. in comparison of your 20 year timeline. Grow up!

  • R

    BTW…The chemicals for the Follica experiments are published. What you need to do Jim Q is to just research and relax. You show much agression for all the wrong reasons. You have no agenda but to start fights. This site becomes hair site due to the reletness childess behavior of those that need a cure today or those that fight people that state the opposite. I will be back later in the future.

    BTW.According to my CONVERSATIONS..Follica and Histogen as well as Mercola will post updates very soon with pcitures!!!!! Smile Everyone!!!

  • washington

    ((((BTW.According to my CONVERSATIONS..Follica and Histogen as well as Mercola will post updates very soon with pcitures!!!!! Smile Everyone!!!))) the great news R… we go to wait… thanks.

  • PM

    Is it true that Zohar and Co. are affiliated with Xconomy?

  • A

    LOL

  • Shooter

    R, can you elaborate more on your conversations? When did they take place? I thought Follica made it official policy a couple months ago not to talk to the public anymore. I know Histogen is supposed to release some trial pictures soon, but what did Mercola’s people tell you?

  • Sam

    Hello guys I just wanted to tell you guys that I started propecia at an early age and I would not wish it on any body, I still (after one year) have decreased amount of semen and till this day I don’t know till this if it messed with the growth of my genitals. I started when I was 21 and I know growth can happen till you are 25 the latest. I beg you guys to stop taking this product, the stem cell research is right around the corner and quote me when I say there will be much more satisfactory products this year

  • C

    More satisfactory products in the next 31 weeks eh? Brilliant.

  • Matty

    Finally some news from Follica: my number one pick for a solid treatment. All very exciting. It’s just the waiting and testing that’s kind of a bummer. I want beautiful, flowing heavy metal tresses now. I want to walk into my local bar wearing a denim jacket with the collar up, one dangling crucifix earring and the hottest, thickest “do” you ever scene. I want to look over at some cougar with an orange tan hanging out by the kino machine and just give her a nod. SHe’ll know exactly what time it is. No need for talk baby. Not with hair like this. Then we’ll make it all night to Eric Clapton unplugged.

  • Chris

    Thanks for that Matty….made my night…(ya its 5 am but im just bout to sleep)

  • Matty

    Get it? Unplugged? Because my hair will be real, not a transplant.
    The only thing plugged is gonna be her.
    Awwww yeah.

  • James

    May 28th Histogen will be on CNN….

  • rev

    R – conversations? really? do tell.

    James – I hope Wolf Blitzer finds some money in his beard to give Histogen. Maybe they can ask Larry King along with Anderson Cooper to put some muscle on skinmedica to drop that idiotic lawsuit.

    Matty – I may hate the genre now, but I’m going to thrash my head to so much death metal music (after they release a cure) that the next thing they’ll have to work on is a cure for whip lash :D

  • CC

    I say let these jack asses take propecia and defy R. The one thing that was consistent and real is R’s comments. Whta have everyone contributed? Rev, A, Jim Q have you brought any value here? I have these posts for awhile and see nothing more than false hope and accusations because things don’t go everyones way. I have tried the MPB website R brought to the forum and the products work. My result are becoming noticeable.

    Go ahead and take your propecia as I have with side effects that have not gone away 100%. You guys don’t deserve facts presented by R and need to experience the shortcomings of your ways. Propecia is the answer guys eat up. Jack asses.

  • Maverick

    Why is Dr. Rassman so pessimistic about HM being released soon? He says that he doubts that HM will be released even 10 years from now on.

  • JoJo

    R : BTW.According to my CONVERSATIONS..

    The great things that God has revealed through R the Prophet… LOL

  • JoJo

    Maverick : Why is Dr. Rassman so pessimistic about HM … ?

    Maybe, because he’s being honest ? Oh, let me see, do you think he must say there will be “something” in a couple of years ? Not really, he’s not a forum member after all.

  • Maverick

    JoJo: “Maybe, because he’s being honest ? Oh, let me see, do you think he must say there will be “something” in a couple of years ? Not really, he’s not a forum member after all.”

    His honesty hmmm? HM will be automatized(a machine will plant follicles directly into the scalp) so multiple classic follicle extraction will not be needed anymore. That means that the price of his work will drop. He is getting now $8 per follicle on classic HT, you extract the conclusion. He is happy like a pig in a mud with this classic HT expensive procedure.

    Well according to the fact that he is an eminent person to tell a “word or two” about HM, yes his opinion is worth commenting. Too many firms and HM developing scientists are talking “5 years max” etc. So someone is deceiving people, it would be a bad decision to take a costly classic HT if HM is “around the corner”.

  • R

    Rassman is correct and we were all lied too by the media and doctors alike. Yes…the non-belivers are correct. The latest scientist have lied all along and a cure for hair loss and or viable treatment is over in the near term. The leading scientist including follica will start selling assets and moving to other areas of skin such psoriases etc.. Sorry but true. We were all lied too by the corrupt world of the hair industry. My last psit as we will never see anything in our lifetime. Good bye and good luck.

    P.S. Stay on Rassman forum as he has the answers and in the loop. I am sorry for the hype and cause, I too believed in a near term treatment. Just accept hair loss everyone and leave this forum and get on with your life.

  • Maverick

    R says: “Rassman is correct and we were all lied too by the media and doctors alike. Yes…the non-belivers are correct. The latest scientist have lied all along and a cure for hair loss and or viable treatment is over in the near term. The leading scientist including follica will start selling assets and moving to other areas of skin such psoriases etc.. Sorry but true. We were all lied too by the corrupt world of the hair industry. My last psit as we will never see anything in our lifetime. Good bye and good luck.

    P.S. Stay on Rassman forum as he has the answers and in the loop. I am sorry for the hype and cause, I too believed in a near term treatment. Just accept hair loss everyone and leave this forum and get on with your life.”

    Come on man, cut the irony. :) Let´s look at the facts. We all know that research is going on which is great but also Cotsarelis said “cure in 5 years…” in 2004, if you ask me he has done a great damage to his reputation and he is not anyone, not some journalist or something, statements like that should be carried out with caution. I do believe that viable treatment or even cure will come out relatively soon(in our lifetime for sure) but little bit of honesty doesn´t hurt.

  • NearlyHomer

    WTF??

    R, are you taking the piss?

  • Maverick

    NearlyHomer: “WTF??

    R, are you taking the piss?”

    He´s having those “brain farts”. Pessimists made him angry. Well the only thing we can do is to raze a funding campaign “fight against baldness” 40 mil. men and women is a powerful number and strength.

  • PM

    So Histogen will be on CNN? Where have you seen this?

  • James

    Histogens Website states that they will be on CNN on the 28th of May.

  • PM

    It’s an old story, you can view it on Histogen’s website.

    James, when do you expect news from them on their recent trial results?

  • James

    I am at a loss now, I am aware that they have had an old video clip on there website and have had for a long time now, but i could have sworn they had updated this:

    “Upcoming airings: May 28, CNN Headline News – Miami”

    Which i did not think related to the other attached video already there, my mistake.

    Histogen should be releasing press any day, when i contacted them they said as much!

    My own personal opinon is that they are holding off for significance, (I’m Speculating here)

    But it is the ISHRS (or something like that) Annual meeting in June of dermatolgists and hair people alike, its were Dr Rassman expects to here about Aderans, and as Histogen have been touted about amongst the Dermatolgist world, i feel that they are waiting to make an impact.

    It would also make the most buisness sense as its were there most likely to pick up series B financing.

    My own thoughts on Rassman, are that as an individual obvisouly his interests are vested, he obvisouly takes pride in his profession and its his job to take an interest in the hair industry. However his answers to peoples questions speak volumes about him as person. He is suprisingly ill informed, and claims not to know a great deal about developments, and most of his information on developments appears to be about readers posting links to companies publishing data.

    They have taken on Dr Farjo, someone a little more up to date, and his addition obviously signals a need for someone a little more in the know.

    Many of you are probably much better informed then he himself is, as its a concern most dearest to your hearts, not his

  • rev

    CC – Read my older posts (from the previous articles), or cram it.
    R – The question was legitimate, no need to get mad about it.

  • J

    WTF??? WHAT THE HELL IS EVERYONE SAYING???
    ARE YOU SAYING FOLLICA IS BULLSHIT??
    ARE YOU SSAYING THERE WILL BE NO TREATMENT IN 5YRS?? WHATS GOING ON HERE??
    WHO LIED TO US??
    WHO IS RASSMAN??
    WAS THAT THE REAL R WHO WROTE THAT?? WHY IS IT OVER ????
    WHAT IS GOING ON????

  • washington

    5 years for a launching… and still are happy with this? my GOD! cotsarellis said… will have one cure in 2 or 3 years, intercytex said… will have a viable product in England in the 2008 end, paul kemp said… waits to launch this product ties the 2009 end. and still is happy in waiting more 5 years?

  • J

    SO WHAT DOES THIS MEAN WASHINGTON???

  • D

    ok there’s no need to panic. If Follica is out of the game, there’s still Histogen, Anderans (which is showing much promise), PRP treatments, A&G regrowth formula and people like thomas whitfield, mercola, dr. armani, etc

    i dunno what the big deal is. Just wear a freaking wig or hats for the next 5 years. It’ll go by fast trust me. I still remember being 17 like it was yesterday.

  • J

    WHAT DO YOU MEAN FOLLICA OUT OF THE GAME????
    WHY THE HELL WOULD FOLLICA BE OUT OF THE GAME??? DID SOMETHING HAPPEN?? THEY JUST GOT A NEW CEO?? DIDNT THEY?? THOUGHT THAT WAS GREAT NEWS???

    WHAT IS HAPPENING IN 5YRS??? WHOS GONNA COME OUT W SOMETHIN IN 5YRS??

    WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON????

  • J

    R????? WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???
    WHAT IS GOING ON???
    WHAT HAPPENED TO FOLLICA???

  • James

    Nothing is wrong….

    Use your intelligence, and personal freedom to establish fact,

    R was simply being sarcastic you would only have to scroll a second up, to see his postive remarks about the future of treatments

    I try an keep information flowing yet people of late are getting a little… personal, this is after all a news forum, all be it a scientific one?

  • PM

    Thanks, James.

  • Artista

    I cant believe all the emotional twists and turns this site has made in such a short period of time. To all, no reason at all to get so stressed out. There are test results that will be forthcoming. wait til you see and hear what these companies show and have produced thus far before you take what is being said here as factual. R i am a bit disappointed that you had stooped to the level of your antagonizer. In doing so you mislead others here.

  • Michael

    most entertaining day of posts in a while lol

  • Squadoosh

    J, would u mind putting of your capslock? Or keeping your finger of the shiftbutton while typing, thanks!

    Anyways, I’ll try to join in too here. Not that I know specific info noone else knows, but all this for sure interests me and I haunt the internet for more information every day ;).

    I also think a cure will be available sooner than later. Like other people said, I think great things are to be released on the IHRS, because lots is going on lately!

    As for R, don’t let those pessimists stop your participation here, you know better than they do!

  • D

    You guys should most def. give anti inflammatory topicals a shot. It reversed a lot of my hairloss.

  • rev

    I don’t consider myself a pessimist; I think a cure is inevitable, but that’s the extent of my predictions. I favor tangible proof and calm discussion over unsubstantiated claims that “a cure’s around the corner” or repetitive comments that remind me to “stop worrying/ be happy”

    This Follica piece is only interesting if their new CEO is more transparent with the company’s press releases, or if he’s more aggressive with trials and commercialization. Anything else puts us back at square one – bickering amongst ourselves.

  • ZZ

    Intercytex says it has a number of interested parties bidding for all or some of its assets. No disclosure yet of who the parties are or whether their hair regeneration assets are drawing interest. Sounds like they are on a fast track to complete a deal.

    http://www.intercytex.com/icx/news/releases/2009/2009-05-20/

  • ZZ

    D,

    What topical anti inflammatories are you using?

  • Artista

    great input ZZ ,Its great to see that some people with logical sensibilities still visits here,,lol

  • Maverick

    Maybe Intercytex is going to start phase III after they were given fundings. Aderans has very simmilar approach as Intercytex on HM.

  • ZZ

    Thanks Artista,

    It takes 2 to fight so I don’t understand why anyone responds to the bullshit comments. By the way, I really like hearing from James. Another great contributor with a great attitude & outlook. It is certainly not necessary to drink any Kool Aid but reasonable discussion would be appreciated.

  • JS

    rev, good to see you posting here again and i agree with what you’re saying. We don’t really know enough information to say if or when we will be seeing anything on the market. It would be nice if Follica could be a bit more transparent, if only to stop people making uninformed projections about timelines. Some people still won’t accept that they don’t know how long it will be and are constantly pulling numbers out of thin air, especially the apparent FDA experts on Hair Site.

    R, you said earlier you had spoken to Mercola’s staff. Could you tell us what they said.

  • PM

    You’re right in that we cannot be sure of an ultimate treatment release date. However, we will know of a potential breakthrough long before we are able to benefit from its technology. We need to pray for some big news at IHRS in July. Anyone have details on this conference? Do we think Histogen will hold out to make a splash? I really hope the proverbial gears are still turning.

  • A

    Hey R, maybe you should stop complaining and just keep taking propecia. Top idea i say. Its such a shame that the only drug on the planet proven to reduce hair loss is the drug you all hate, have fun suffering. LOL.

  • rev

    Propecia loses it’s total effectiveness over time. It’s also ineffective against frontal loss.

  • Maverick

    “Propecia loses it’s total effectiveness over time. It’s also ineffective against frontal loss.”

    Propecia is poison, period.

  • Artista

    Apparently Propecia also erodes ones character.

  • Maverick

    That is B.S. not a cure. Too serious side effects. I bet they covered some of them up just to make profit. You don´t mess with your “family jewels” down low. I´ve heard stories about men who can´t have kids who used finasteride or dutasteride.

  • Artista

    Thought that we might rereview this info from a few months ago.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/feb/17/1b17hair213536-biotech-excited-about-hair-growth-r/
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Now with a little hindsite, what does all think and feel about this?
    Remember Dr Rassman’s own words
    “This is all quite exciting! Until I see actual data it wouldn’t be professional of me to comment further..”

  • Maverick

    It is exciting, but on that pictures test subject already had some hair in “before” picture. “After” picture showed significantly increased amount of hair. I would like to see the results on a completely bald head and then see the results after some time. Wnt proteins which is Histogen´s “ReGenica” main ingredient can also cause tumors so their 2015 release date is logical as they must test the medicine. It would be very bad for someone and Histogen that gets a new hair and possible brain tumor.

  • commonsense

    for all hairloss, frontal, top of the head even on your fooking balls, propecia should stop/slow down hairloss to some degree.

    The reason why we dont have any feedback for the frontal hairline is because no company is going to research frontal hair loss when they have the opportunity to research/test the whole head of a baldy! people losing a small amount of hair isnt going to be tested.

    end of…. Propecia stops your body producing a certain chemical that causes hairloss. In time your body will become tolerent and a stonger chemical/treatment/whatever will be needed.

    frontal hair baldness isnt caused by a different chemical. and so, propecia should be affective to whatever hair on the body.

    bed now!! good night!

    ps. i think the future looks bright.

  • commonsense

    also they are two kinds of people in the world(hairless)

    1. one who stay positive and reports new/excting information.

    or

    2. “the people who dont”

    if you are the second gooo, join your fellow hairless buddies and be happy! leave us to talk about hope and science while you fill your life with doom and gloom. Dont spread it on to others with a better outlook that you.

  • rev

    Commonsense. You forgot #3 – optimistic with a small hint of rational behavior. For example, it’s alright to ASSUME a cure’s inevitable (heck, people invent cool things all the time); it’s irrational to STATE it’s just around the corner… especially when you compound no proof-of-concept, with the industry’s shady track record.

    Re Propecia: Propecia has been around for roughly 20 years; in that time, you’d think Merck would produce a study that supports claims of frontal gains. If our hair reacted similarly than rogaine would also work on the frontal area, but it doesn’t.

  • commonsense

    oooh i totally agree with you. On your new scale of things i’m defintely a number three. warning goldie locks reference…

    this one is to hot, this one is to cold, this one is just right! i like the think that i’ve got the “just right” outlook.

    as for propecia. Yes you think Merck would of puduced a study. All i know is that they didnt. The reason for hairloss is because of high Dihydrotestosterone. Propecia stops/slows the production of Dihydrotestosterone. Propecia helps!

    simple, commonsense if you will!

  • A

    And only a small amount of people come to the internet to complain propecia doesnt work. last year they made 405 million dollars from propecia in america alone, so thats what somewhere around 400,000 people in america alone that use branded propecia, not proscar or generics or anywhere else in the world. of those maybe 1000 people come to the internet to complain the rest get on with their lives and enjoy the hair that this drug has saved. :P Facts are facts until a cure comes out all you have is propecia minox niz and maybe spiro tricomin copper peptides this is fact, deal with it and stop bashing it.

  • KKwilliams

    have to chime in and say that I know we all want a cure asap…but Anyone pinning their hopes on a 1-2 year cure is setting themselves up for heartache.

    The 5 year cure timeline continues to appear because its far enough into the future that no one really remembers or holds a company to that time frame. as people we view 5 years as a long time away and for sure something will come about by then.

    The truth is however that 5 years in scientific terms with all the red tape and testing is the blink of an eye.

    On a positive note science is at a MUCH!! Better point in beginning to unravel genetics and stem cell research then in the 80’s 100 times over. We may not be at the point of a cure but we are at the start of understanding and exploring scientific techniques that one day might lead to a cure.

    I believe that 5 years is being optimistic and 10 years is a plausible time line for a cure.

    Truth be told, I have begun looking for careers that will allow me to wear a hat!! sad to say but that’s the legit truth. I pray for a cure within 10 years but have given in to given in to the reality that my ideal career and life may have to be given up because of the real possibility(like generations before me) that my age group(mid 20’s) may not see the cure in time :(

    Those are my honest thoughts so don’t attack me :))

  • Artista

    KK, i dont see why anyone here would bash you for your thoughts and contributions. You are in your mid 20s and think that there wont be a ‘cure’ for your generation!?!? That thought process alone tells me you are speaking emotionally. Sadness and disappointment may have affected your logical thoughts in re to MPB. I truly EMPATHIZE with you as well as most guys here. I hate wearing hats. I glad to say that I do feel that you are in for a pleasant surprise in the future, sooner than later. One more thing,,i hate to use the term ‘cure’ because there never will be a CURE.A Medical treatment(s) is around the corner. Do not despair.

  • Happy1

    I’m waiting for someone to say: “I used Propecia, now my car won’t start.”

    I wonder how much of this dialogue is based upon one’s personal experience.

    Here’s mine; Propecia for 4 years. NO side effects. Yes, it helped my hair loss considerably (everywhere). After 4 years it was not as effective.
    I’ve been on Avodart 1 year. Again, NO side effects. I believe it is even more effective for hair loss than Propecia. I also like the fact that I don’t have to cut those tiny pills into quarters.

    Now I’ve had my say. Can we PLEASE get back on topic?

  • Artista

    Hey has anyone had any experience with or heard of the site, hairtransplant dot com? I had never heard of it til just now when i was on youtube. The testimonials show these men,,especially the Neil Diamond impersonator, as being quite happy with the results(of course). Has this clinic/company come up in conversation at one of the balding blog sites? Curious to know,,i am in the market to have HTs done eventually.

  • Artista

    We all would want to stay away from those ‘hair mill’ clinics that would
    getyouin/getyouout

  • J

    Listen…who cares about a cure??? All we care about is getting a quality TREATMENT to market ASAP!!!!!

    FOLLICA!!!!!

  • ZZ

    With all of the talk recently about time lines, I believe there is a distinction worth pointing out(as touched on by PM above) between Step 1- “Discovery & and Proof of an Actual Breakthru Treatment” and Step 2- “Getting it to Market” so that we can actually use it. We have neither yet but I believe many of us feel that there are enough companies in the hunt that we are rapidly closing in on getting to Step 1. Step 2, (FDA approval) is what it is. Whether we realize it or not, getting to Step 1 will be an enormous psychological lift to us all and I believe by the time we get to Step 1, we may well already be in or close to Phase 2 of Clinical FDA testing.

    Secondly, just to give you a different perspective regarding what works and what doesn’t and what part of the scalp it works on if it does. We all have different body chemistries, and varying degrees of sensitivity to the negative forces at work against our hair. None of the treatments we have available today are powerful enough to overcome these negative forces once they reach a certain level or once the degradation of the hair follicle reaches a certain point. So while Propecia, PRP or any other treatment might work better or longer at the crown where the forces at work might be relatively calm, it might not work at all in an area where there is a raging hormonal assault such as at the hairline. If the battle at the hairline is no more severe than at the crown, there should be little difference in effectiveness. This is a very complicated process and all we know for sure is that some treatments work in varying degrees for some people and they don’t for others. Until someone comes up with a very strong treatment, there are just too many variables for blanket statements about effectiveness or ineffectivenes to be credible.

  • Artista

    Very well put ZZ! One would hope that your input would be enough to put the debate over the effectiveness of products like propecia and the others to bed for now. Human behavior being what it is , im sure it wont.

  • ZZ

    Agreed Artista

    Have a great Holiday and here’s hoping to see 99% of the photo’s next week from Histogen showing the density of the Amazon Rain forest!

  • Artista

    Whatever the outcome shows to be in Histogen’s latest trial photos,it will be a step CLOSER to a viable TREATMENT for MPB. To what degree we shall soon see. have a great holiday yourself,,and to all

  • JS

    KKwilliams, I’m in the same situation, and no amount of self help BS will change anything for me personally, going through this when you’re young is a nightmare and the fact that we live in some of the most image conscious times is an even bigger kick in the balls.

  • KKwilliams

    Artista,

    I am not speaking emotionally :) I just have decided that the only thing for me to do since I truly don’t see(based on current progress) that a real solution/cure is possible within 5 years is to direct my life based on those beliefs.

    I decided there was no point finishing a degree that would get me in a job making above average salary as none of my career options allowed for the wearing of hats and I know myself..I cant handle my hairs current and possible further deterioration being displayed in public.

    I hope to find a career that allows me to still make good money while not having any hat restraints :)Some people would say Im a fool but I am happy where I am mentally right now yaknow? Its not that I have accepted or embraced this Fuc&ing S@#* situation but have just decided to live as best I can. Im tired of sitting hoping for a cure. I want to start making some headway career and life wise

    JS,
    Yes it sucks that we are young going through this but I have plenty of sympathy that went before us man. Hopefully we get lucky and a cure within 10 years. I can go on and live a great life if 10 years is the time it takes.

    P.S. when I use the term cure I mean anything that gives our natural density back…if that turns out to be rubbing mayonnaise on our heads every nite to get those results..I call that a cure! :)

  • Maverick

    I think that the biggest obstacle will be the FDA. Technology for hair cloning will probably be done by 2011-2012. FDA approval will take time that we don´t have. Maybe we will just have to go outside USA to get hair transplant(multiplication). I am in my mid ´20, so 10 years of waiting is way to long for me, I´ ll be 34-35 years old and probably will not want HM anymore. It is just unfair to lose your youth with this cursed hair loss genes.

  • bill123

    hey guys, how is everyone :)
    lots of bickering going on nowadays on hair loss forums. i for one believe that nothing good comes from negativity. i believe we will see a good treatment from Aderans within 5 years. they have been at it for a long long time now. if they don’t succeed then ill stop thinking about hair loss and just move on with life but even then i wont come on hair loss sites and complain. i really dont see anything good coming from that. im suprised people arent talking about aderans, they have very strong pre clinical data, a dream scientist team and anyone who understands science knows that the aderans method has a much much higher chance of working then intercytex. that being said even icx didnt fail, it grows hair. we just dont know how much.
    also has everyone forgot about thomas whitfield. i know his claims are hard to believe but if you do your research on him, you’ll see hes a very bright lad and his article came from a very respected source. there must be some truth to his claims. well i guess we gotta wait and see. hope everyones good :)

  • mm

    I think this new follica news is very promicing. Follicas moving forward dispite its lack of anouncments.

    From what i was reading i was beginning to think that follica had hit a huge problem or infact simply was in-effective but as their plowing ahead, its very good news. I think pure tech ventures would of pulled the plug and cut its losses already if it was doomed. Instead theyve got a persumably *highly paid* guy to come and take things to the next level.

  • balder

    I sure hope Follica moves on into FDA trials soon. Every time I take a shower I see hair in the tub. I’m not sure if it’s from my head or my chest.

  • harry

    I would be surprised if Follica had a deliverable product within 2 years from now. I feel sorry for all the bald people who will die before then.

  • Squadoosh

    Wasn’t it Follica who didn’t have to take the FDA trials? Or was that another company? Or can Follica only skip a part of it?

  • Maverick

    Personally I believe in Aderans more than Follica. They use advanced Intercytex technique and Intercytex had excellent results with prestimulation of scalp. Only thing was hair thickness which was 30+ microns thick(60m is normal thickness) and I believe that Aderans will surpass that. Follica talks too much, results=0%.

  • Artista

    Follica talks too much?? To whom exactly? They have been as silent as the other companys involved in this research.

  • ZZ
  • Artista

    great info ZZ, i find it interesting that the publishers of these articles would feel the need to also add the lab pics. To us common laymen they are just pretty graphics,,lol. I may enlarge the one on the left to poster size and hang it in my foyer ,sideways. All kidding aside ,just one more step closer for scientists/docs to solve the age old MPB riddle.

  • Maverick

    “Follica talks too much?? To whom exactly? They have been as silent as the other companys involved in this research”

    Well, Cotsarelis saying “5 years from now we will have this on the market…” story in 2004. Cotsarelis is not nobody and in my opinion he made a terrible damage on his credibility. Plus we don´t know in which phase they are on now, are they in phase I? II? Did they even tested their theory in practice like Intercytex did? Don´t take me as a pessimist but I don´t think that there are scientific difficulties that cannot be overcomed before at least 10 years. I think that they all lack some serious funding and attention. If there wasn´t that damned recession Intercytex would have started Phase III in september 2008.

  • ZZ

    This BMP6 discovery could be exteremely significant for 2 reasons: Apparently one of the problems with intercytex (and maybe Aderans) was that when you take the stem cells from an existing follicle for cloning, the longer they are out of the scalp the more they loose their identity. Since “BMP6 specifically maintains the molecular identity of dermal papilla cells’ this may solve that problem. The other significant point is that knowing that BMP6 is the communication pathway “provides clues to the type of signals that follicle stem cells may send to dermal papilla”. This could really shorten the time frame for process of elimination. If you remember the article earlier this year where Elaine Fuchs was quoted, she said she had some new ideas about how to unravel the mystery.

  • weaselmaneasel

    I was wondering if anyone could let me know how the natural approach, as suggested by R, is working for them? What is their regime. I am thinking of giving it go. cheers

  • happy1

    I’ve been following the A&G hair loss product forum with fascination.
    Here’s the link in case anyone missed it.
    http://www.hairlossfight.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1085&sid=1c6d702c64a8fe733339ca595d774ba4&start=240

    It’s currently over 100 pages long and makes for interesting reading regarding human behavior.

    Hope truly is the most powerful thing in the universe. It trumps everything, especially logic. This is something to keep in mind when looking for a hair loss panacea.

    The A&G product it is not a scam.
    How can it be?
    It does nothing, promises nothing and delivers nothing.

    The buyer of the A&G has to guess what it does and how it does it.

    Unbelievably, some people on the site are actually looking into buying a second dose!

  • Tenq

    Here is another positive sign.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090525/sc_nm/us_hair_loss

    Researchers all around the world are contributing bits of information here and there. They are really building an encyclopedia of knowledge not seen before.

  • JoJo

    happy1 : LOL, best post ever

  • D

    What’s interesting about A&G is that it’s growing vellus hairs in areas which were void of hair. What remains to be seen however is if these hairs will cycle in into terminal hairs in the next few months. If not, then it’s a scam.

  • WhyHappy

    Yes evryone here is happy until one negative comment sinks the sail of everyones expectations. You guys need to relax and stop freaking out over every detail and news. You must wait at least three more years for proof of concept on a larger test population, then 2 more years for filing and then 2 more for product development. You will see something hopefully sooner but my experience is much later. Like R stated “Enjoy your life and wait”

  • Shooter

    When was Histogen scheduled to release final trial photos/results, or were they?

    On their website the doctors said something about new FOLLICLE growth, more hairs sprouting from existing follicles (i.e. hair growth), and thicker hair throughout. Um… those are some big statements. I would LOVE to see 24 week data backing that up.

  • Shooter

    Also, WhyHappy, the numbers you threw out are completely arbitrary. 3 years for proof of concept is not necessarily true. Histogen almost proved POC in 12 weeks. If it truly works, the number of people in the trial becomes a nonentity. Also, product development wouldn’t happen after FDA trials.

    Trust me, I know EXACTLY where you’re coming from, and these things take MUCH longer than we reasonably expect them to, but people might take your timelines seriously and get really down so I had to rebut. Definitely not trying to like hate on you or anything, though.

  • Metsie

    Precisely the point Shooter. Most can handle the truth in a reasonable manner. Its just that when you try to fight the growing evidence, bring the facts with you and the “reasonable man” will listen no matter how bitter the taste. It just that too many are showing up, talking out of their ass saying 10 years blah, blah blah with nothing to back up their claims. Unfortunately they are here and will remain until a treatment comes to market.

  • Artista

    Humerous and truthful synopsis Metsie! Ive not commented on the latest forcasts and #s mentioned by some here. FRUSTRATION is partially to blame ,really. It truly can be cripping for some of us to lose our hair. Especially those that are very young. Hang in there gentlemen. We are all in the same boat.

  • PM

    It’s starting to look like IHRS is our next potential marker for big news. Are we positive that Histogen is going to come out with a press release?

  • Artista

    PM,,yes maybe not only Histogen. the Aderans Phase II results are expected as well. ISHRS conference is the event to watch in July.

  • travis

    Vitamin D Analogues reverse Hair Loss (e.g., Calcitriol, etc.)
    You can try applying topical D3 to your scalp + using DermaRoller
    or You can also use the more bioavailable Calcitriol, topical “Vectical” cream marketed by Galderma, Rx for Psoriasis released last Feb.

    Tocotrienols by Carotech (Tocomin SupraBio):
    Tocotrienols may reverse male pattern baldness: Study
    http://tr.im/mLTS
    http://tr.im/mLTY
    http://tr.im/mLUt

  • Bob

    Are Follica and Histogen basically doing the same thing? What is the difference them between?

    And shouldn’t Follica be done with their 15-20 ppl POC, like now?

    Hmmm… The CURE might be many years away but I believe that we will pretty soon know if any of the companies are up to something good.

    And also, Follica don’t need to go through the FDA right? That is what I have read at least. Any one know anything on that?

  • Maverick

    Why are you so upset about FDA? I am sure that the procedure will be done outside USA where FDA means nothing.

  • Bob

    They are not going to do it outside of the USA.
    It’s a US company and they will stick to the US. But nevertheless, I heard they can get around FDA trials somehow.

  • Maverick
  • Maverick

    Aderans is a Japanese firm so they can perform surgeries in Japan or other parts of the world. FDA trials will prolong the treatment release for at least 7 years.

  • James

    Follica = Bald skin damaged, (micro abrasion +) the skin is then (using a cocktail of chemcials already FDA approved) treated, skin thus favours the promotion of new hair over new skin.

    Histogen = Bald skin not damaged, stem-cell regulators activated within the skin promoting hair growth, new technology, NOT FDA approved

    Follica, do not need to do FDA Trials because the chemicals used have already been through FDA trials confirming that they are safe for use on humans, (Speculating now) what they are testing is the method in which these chemicals should be applied and how to maximise results.

    They have just appointed a CEO who is experiencd in getting a product to market
    Daphene of Follica confirmedd the existance of a preclinical trial last August, which in theory has concluded, the conclusion coincided remarkabely with the appointment of their new CEO.

    Aderans Research is an American firm owned by Aderans who are Japanese, it was set up in America, its an American firm. If it wishes to progress as a company then it will trade under FDA guidance. If Aderans had wanted to develop outside of the FDA they would have spent far less just developing it under a team based in Japan.

    Histogen have gone very quiet, and i like the rest of you am deep in speculation mode.
    As I have already stated the ISHRS will be in July it is a logical time to expect some news.

    Histogen did announce that their results would be realsed in May 2009, and i personally emailed them to confirm this so I appoligise if i have posted inaccurate information. Do keep in mind that a company like Histogen if the right financial backing is acquired would not need to publicse anything and would be as secretive as Follica. So you could speculate that if the right finances have been aquired then it would be better to keep there cards closer to their chest!

    As already stated there is a growing volume of research on the web and studies exploring the mystery of hairloss, and new discoveries. If you do a spot of research you can actually witness for yourself how the scientific findings and the companies becoming involved are growing expontentially annualy.

    No-one should take my information for fact, and most of you should remember that you know more than the average person and even the doctors we hold in high esteem. Remember doctors are proffesionals they learn like you do, but 99% only know what they have been taught and what they come across in day to day life. Hair science is not normal its cutting edge and so its often good to keep this in mind when basing your opinons on so called proffesional opinion!

    James Out!

  • JimQ

    “My own thoughts on Rassman, are that as an individual obvisouly his interests are vested, he obvisouly takes pride in his profession and its his job to take an interest in the hair industry. However his answers to peoples questions speak volumes about him as person. He is suprisingly ill informed, and claims not to know a great deal about developments, and most of his information on developments appears to be about readers posting links to companies publishing data.”

    Rassman is a propecia salesman, plain and simple.

  • JimQ

    # Happy1
    5/22/09 9:24 am

    I’m waiting for someone to say: “I used Propecia, now my car won’t start.”

    I wonder how much of this dialogue is based upon one’s personal experience.

    Here’s mine; Propecia for 4 years. NO side effects. Yes, it helped my hair loss considerably (everywhere). After 4 years it was not as effective.
    I’ve been on Avodart 1 year. Again, NO side effects. I believe it is even more effective for hair loss than Propecia. I also like the fact that I don’t have to cut those tiny pills into quarters.

    Now I’ve had my say. Can we PLEASE get back on topic?

    No side effects? Have you had your liver looked at lately?

  • James

    Just to clarify the FDA trials i previsouly mentioned, in lamens terms, as i understand it gets quite confusing and i didnt really make it any clearer! just in case someone is thinking how can it already be FDA approved?

    Follica are using drugs (FOR EXAMPLE: such as skin creams, minoxidil etc) that all individually had to go through years and years of FDA testing.

    Follica have discovered that when a cocktail of pre-exsiting FDA approved substances are delivered and administered correctly (Lets call it the Cortarlasis Formulea) then it is possible to facilitate hair growth.

    Now one hurdle they will have to prove to skip FDA is that the new combinations synagetic effect does not constitute the need for a new FDA trials.

    Also as the Research & Design progresses there may be new breakthroughs and new chemicals not FDA approved required and thus you will need FDA trials.

    My own speculatitve judgement/theory on follica is that Dr G. Cortarelis breakthrough was not a discovery concerning certain compound triggering a reaction, as was the case with Propecia and Minox were the was hair growth.

    Therefore an actual understanding of what was going on and how it works and why it works that way was discovered!

    Follica has the knowhow! They are now busy creating a treatement that will do the job, this theory would also explain how they got Finacial backing very easily!

  • Artista

    JimQ, thanks for your input, i guess.
    I just wonder why some of you have decided that this is THE site to debate the merits of propecia. Remember the the title of this blog page is…………………………

    “Follica Gets New CEO, Gears Up for More(Hair and Business) Growth”

    Its great that some of you have good results without side effects with the FDA approved drugs avalable for MPB and its too bad that isnt effective for others..period. Can only speak for myself in saying that i am active on this site primarily to be educated on the latest news related to this new technology. Its an exciting AND very promising time in MPB research.
    Another thing i am perplexed by is the critisisms toward Dr Rassman. Again its a propecia related topic. Lets say for the sake of argument that he has vested interest in that drug. Who cares? It has NO bearing on anything related to the primary theme of *THIS* blog panel. Rassman is actually very clinical and careful in his opinions.
    Even once there is a major ‘breakthrough’ treatment(not a cure)for MPB,the need for HTs will still be ongoing. Rassman will still have a job and im sure he knows it too. Lets look forward to JULY!!!!!!!!!!!

  • ZZ

    Agreed Artista ….. Time to give those topics a rest. That is pretty much my understanding as well James. Approved drugs can be prescribed for off label purposes with no new trials or approval needed. The down side of that is that if the drug is prescribed off label, it can’t be marketed for the off label purpose without approval for that purpose. But short term, if the pictures prove bald to consistently thick hair, they won’t need any marketing!
    Does anyone have any insight on the BMP6 discovery? That article from February highlighting the top 4-5 companies knocking on the door said the major hurdle when you take a follicular stem cell outside it’s environment, it quickly looses it’s identity and forgets that it is supposed to make hair. Since BMP6 has now been discovered to be the protein that gives the follicular stem cell it’s identity, this could be the missing link to put Aderans and Intercytex over the top. Those are the 2 companies whose concept takes takes cells put of the scalp for later reimplantation and both are already in stage 2 clinical trials. Am I on the right thought process here?

  • Happy1

    JimQ

    I got really worried after I read your comment so I looked at my liver this morning while driving to work.
    It said: “Made in USA” on it.
    At first I though I was in SERIOUS trouble but upon closer inspection I realized that it didn’t have a Union Label. With this in mind, I’m thinking that I may be alright. I’d feel much better though with an expert’s opinion. Can I send it to you?

    How about we just get back on topic?

  • Artista

    I believe you are ZZ ~absolutely

  • haircoach

    Follica-Ju-Cancidas and Ciclosporin A : what is the link?

  • Metsie

    Artista, regarding your earlier statement whats happening in July besides great barbacues and really humid weather?

  • Artista

    hi Met’ in july the ISHRS conference will be underway. Hopefully we will hear of great things to come..

  • JS

    http://reason.com/blog/show/133784.html

    The link above is not directly about our plight, but the latest developments it’s talking about will surely only be of benefit to us.

  • A

    Hopefully this problem is cured in about 5 years, im sick of wasting my youth getting depressed about hairloss come on Aderans, Intercytex, Follica histogen. I need one of you to help me so badly.

  • Maverick

    I only pray that this technology will be used around the world. I don´t have anything against USA laws but your FDA sometimes takes too long. And time is working against us.

  • A

    I agree, we need this asap not when fda advises it. In Australia it could pretty much be brought in straight away, and take away my feelings of need towards a HT.

  • Maverick

    Middle east is cool too. They don´t have any restrictions on anything that involves medicine, even genetic engineering is legal. Recently cloned camel was born in Dubai, UAE. Iran is more likely perform HM when it becomes available, you would be surprised how many of their HT surgeons are members of ISHRS.

  • whyOhwhy

    Hey guyz i been reading this post since it first started(sorry for my english being so bad)i speak spanish mostly but newayz im like most of you guyz tying to find a solution for my hair and everytime i see you people fighting i start to realize that we are stuck for now. Im on propecia and it really bad but thats my only choice right now ,either that or go bald…well today i was looking at this yahoo page in spanish and i saw this thing on the main page that they found the gene thats making us go bald and its call sox21 they found this in hong kong so i took the time to look this in an english page and this is the link http://www2.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2009-05/27/content_7945331.htm
    well i dunno if this is gonna help much but i need my hair back fast beacuse this is driving me crazy im 25 so i stll have a lil bit of hope left

  • Shooter

    Finally some good news.

    For about a year or two, people have been talking about the Acell Regenerative Extra-Cellular Matrix and its application for hair loss sufferers. A couple people really pressed the issue but were shot down by some extremely rude posters on a lot of forums. For that reason, I’m not posting this information on forums. This seems to be the only open-minded and grounded place left.

    I digress…

    Dr. Jones was the first doctor to try Acell, but his experiment resulted in a scab (something that is not supposed to happen when ECM is used correctly). People wrote Acell off as a failure and a lot of the hopeful posters had to eat their words at the expense of the pessimists.

    In fact, just a few days ago, the lead Acell optimist from HS.com, Willy, even wrote an apology letter for getting people’s hopes up about a failed technology.

    This one goes out to Willy from HS.com, thanks man. You kept hope alive, and things finally seem to be moving in the right direction:

    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.nyhairloss.com/free_consul.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.nyhairloss.com/acell.htm&usg=__g5kTmhoX_6or8tJBOD0l9ISm74I=&h=70&w=232&sz=18&hl=en&start=19&um=1&tbnid=sF4yLDtIey_DFM:&tbnh=33&tbnw=109&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dacell%2Bhair%2Bregrowth%2Bafter%2Bapplication%26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4GGLJ_enUS229US230%26sa%3DN%26start%3D18%26um%3D1

    It might not be a cure yet, but it’s better than anything we’ve ever had in the past. Have a good week guys. Here’s to bigger and better things in the future.

  • Shooter

    The doctor’s name is Gary Hitzig. His staff is very nice (I called awhile ago) and open to questions. The only thing they aren’t good at is publicity. I mean, they might have solved hair loss and still no one knows.

    Either way, we’ve had enough publicity and false hopes, so maybe that’s a good thing. If a couple posters could give this doctor a call and nicely ask for more results, I think we’d all appreciate it.

  • Shooter

    Here’s a better link:

    http://www.nyhairloss.com/acell.htm

  • ThOne

    Good find Shooter, thanks.

  • Artista

    Hey Shooter,,thanks for the links and info’.
    Very interesting stuff, I remember the fingertip news.

  • commonsense

    i know this is repeating what we already know but it excites me that the next stage is development:

    “Bill Ju as the CEO of Follica. He brings the ideal blend of dermatology and drug development experience, creativity and leadership skills to Follica in this next exciting phase of DEVELOPMENT,” Ms. Zohar stated.”

    http://stemcellbaldnesscures.com/company-news/follica/follica-takes-radical-new-approach-to-treating-hair-loss/

  • bob

    Great finds,

    Problem with ACELL is that you would still need a HT and there are few good doctors available for that. I would much rather see Follica come up with something. They should release something soon, an update of sorts. Last January they said POC would take about a year and it has gone a year + 4 months now so where is the update on that? Are they intentionally keeping things on a low note or don’t they have satisfactory results?

  • J

    So Follica is in the development stage?? That means the procedure they have works and works good enouph to bring to market… so its only a matter of time until it comes out… mabye sooner now rather than 5yrs. awesome!!!! great news!!

  • travis

    Why did Dr. Greco not apply PRP treatment on the temples? Does it really not work? We know it works in the crown area and that it is VIRTUALLY identical to the FOllica method: dermaroller + growth factors. So does it mean follica won’t work for the temple area as well?

  • metsie

    Remember per the Philadelphia interview, Dr. C stated “within 5 years” from date of interview. Meaning max = 5yrs., min = today. For a privately help company that had no problem raising 17 Milllion and not obligated to say anything, I’d say they have been very open in their dealings. Do they have to reveal their finding in phase I, II or XI? Hell no!! But everything they have told us leads me to believe its simply a matter of time. Matty, your cougar chasing dream could become a reality.

  • Shooter

    Travis, the PRP protocol is not at ALL identical to Follica’s procedure. There is a big difference between dermarolling and dermabrading (concentrated prick vs. complete epidermal disruption/reset button). Also, PRP is not at all like WNT or EGF inhibitors, it is just a really healthy, nutrient rich blood. PRP has NEVER been said to make new follicles, conversely Follica’s technique is based solely on the ability to make new follicles.

  • commonsense
  • Shooter

    Commonsense, that is just a PRP treatment. Alot of Doctors like Greco, Jones and Feller are already doing it. It has nothing to do with stem cells and does not regrow hair, it only helps strengthen existing hair. It is a good procedure, but NOT “stem cell hair replacement.” Sorry.

  • TheOne

    I thought some of those who don’t visit hairsite might find this interesting.

    http://www.alviarmanihairtransplants.com/about-us/hair-loss-research.aspx

    http://www.alviarmani-genomics.com/default.aspx

  • washington

    Armani’s New Genomics Website http://www.alviarmani-genomics.com/default.aspx (they are speaking of one cure next using the same work to intercytex )

  • ZZ

    For a good summary of the PRP procedure and how it theoretically works see the post at

    05/22/2009 11:48 AM by SPEX

    at this link: http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=5&threadid=84003&enterthread=y

    This is from Dr. Feller who is now perfroming the procedure.

  • ItsWhatever

    Hey guys!

    It’s been awhile. It’s hard not to get pissed off at some of the wet blankets around here, but I found something on youtube and it’s worth a look.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ80u2RoX7o

    I’m sure DHT and human biology plays a huge role in hairloss, but this seems like attacking MPB from a more simple approach. I always given a “natural” approach to anything first, and this seems to be “legit.” Which is a word we very rarely hear in the hair world.

    Maybe homeopathy does have a place here. At least to maintain what we have.

    I just watched that Follica spot that was on “the Today Show” and found it inspiring.

    I know this is depressing and I’m luckily only dealing with the very initial steps of it (slightly receding temple area), but am worried because my grandpa is clean bald, my other grandpa still has hair all over, but very very thin at 89 (which is pretty damn good) and my dad has very thin Jack Nicholson type hair, so here I am at 23 hoping Follica will have a breakthrough.

    I really felt sincerety from Dr. C when he was talking about his technique, like he was “DEAD SURE.” The way he formulated his responses was never “maybe” or “We’re seeing SOME results.” He was SURE and had mice growing in THICK patches of what seemed close to 100% growth.

    Times change so fast and so does technology. We are in the information age, which these doctors are taking full advantage of. We’re on the verge of regrowing partial limbs, human ears, eyes, noses! People are buzzing about the cure for blindness! GIVING SIGHT TO THE BLIND FOR CHRIST SAKE! The medical field is no longer moving at a snail pace, but rapidly and becoming more verocious exponentially.

    And we are the checks and balances to these “medical breakthroughs.” With the aid of the internet, we know what works and what does not! We can call out scams and frauds and that spreads like wildfire!

    We live in marvelous times. We are on the brink of a time where baldness will probably be a “style choice” rather than an inherited trait.

    The doubters can spread their loathesome self-doubt all they want, but it has no merit because they claim “things won’t work” or “things never change” but right now… EVERYTHING is changing! Even the way we’re starting to view earthly physics is starting to shift, our ideas about space are starting to evolve, and the medical field is progressing faster than ever with this blank slate called “Stem Cell Research/Therapy.”

    So, be sad. Cry about things you have limited control over, but know this…

    CHANGE IS COMING… And fast.

  • washington

    when somebody dispatches by post here videos of really bald people having crecimento of hair in bald areas? I do not understand because they place as much here idiotiçe…I am one norwood 6, and nothing of these magical cures serve me. we need follica intercytex aderans, dr. armani, fat cells, etc… not this type of miraculous treatment.

  • Artista

    I watched that video Itswhatever provided. When the salonist,Benedict Palmeri, stated that the hair cant come up due to a buildup of resins he lost me. Its that age old snake oil sell, that the pores are being blocked. Correct me if i am wrong,,did i see a laser comb being used as well? That could explain the womans regrowth, not herbs.

  • Artista

    I watched again,,that was a magnifier being used that i saw in the vid. Regardless, If herbs were the cureall we would not be here now ,would we?

  • Dave
  • ItsWhatever

    Well you’re all so concerned about a “silver bullet” cure that doesn’t exist currently, and you’re mad about any small progress, even if it has to do with maintenance because you’re a Norwood 6. I’m not going to pander to your pity and self-defeatist attitude. Sorry, you lost your hair, get over it and pump the brakes on interfering with people’ who’s outlook is opposite of yours.

    It’s nobody’s fault you or anybody else has terrible genetics and to take that out on people who are “trying” doesn’t do anybody, any sort of good. I’m convinced balding isn’t absolutely genetic and can be stiffled by human attempts. I also believe that it’s a recipe of genetic and environmental factors that groundbreaking technology is going to have to “fix” once and for all. There are things we can do to ward off premature balding, and until that “silver bullet” you’re crying about comes along, I say the only thing that’s going to help us along is staying positive and doing the best you can to uplift those people around you.

    You guys are going to have to cancel the pity party fairly soon.

  • ItsWhatever

    Dave,

    Great news. It seems like recreating hair follicles is almost becoming common place. With all the attention on this subject, this entire field is starting to create a “snowball” effect, which is good for us , as capitalism has a very darwinistic nature to it. The strong(er) survive and prosper.

    Good find.

  • washington

    ItsWhatever …if you want treatments anti-falls vain in this site… hairsite (all natural suplements and diets). it does not come here with these idiotic prescriptions, or treatments the base of finasteride, minox…we do not enter here to read this type of information. the majority of the people is norwood 5… 6 here, and need being born new hair, not treating the ones that have, being thus please, pole these information in another place, are not the certain place for this here.

  • washington

    R……..what you think on this new work of dr. armani? thanks.
    http://www.alviarmani-genomics.com/default.aspx

  • R

    All the latest news presented are positive and if you review the science, many compliment the others with their field of research. Like I stated in the past. Once a “Rougue” scientist put his/er mind into curing something, others that traveled on the lethargic bandwagon will wake up and get the train moving faster. What we are seeing is an accelerated approach in curing / offering a viable treatment beyond histories examples.

    What we need to do is continue the research and expect more literature and pictures form the players of this research. We should here something soon!

  • Artista

    You are correct R,
    We will be hearing of something soon. The ISHRS conference is being held this July.I believe results by the latest phase tests will be reviewed then. To respond to comments made(against my better judgement),No one here is looking for a ‘silver bullet cure'(whatever that means). Those of us here that are on top of the latest developments look forward to new results by the various companies devoted to finding a good TREATMENT in MPB using new technology and proper fundings. We are also educated enough to decipher what is and isnt legitimate. To hear of good results that some have experienced using other forms of treatments is well and good BUT *NOT* the main focus of this particular site. Meanspirited comments arent welcomed at all either. ZZ, werent you recently treated by Dr Greco? If so,,how is it coming along my friend?

  • ZZ

    Artista,

    I am at the 6 week mark so it is still too early to tell. I have been on a strong downhill run the last several years and every time I start to think something is beginning to work, I am proven otherwise. Effectiveness can be a very difficult thing to determine so I will withold judgement at least thru July. But my scalp does seem to feel better and I am encouraged that other legitimate doctors are performing the procedure, including Dr. Feller whose comments I referred to above. Also, I don’t know if you have done any research but it seems to me that a procedure/”drug” for one-time use, would lend itself to a much much quicker FDA approval process than a drug that required repeated or long term use. Relatively speaking, I would think the safety profile could be determined fairly quickly.

  • Artista

    Well i can understand. I certainly wish you great success with your PRP treatment ZZ. I went to that other website (hairlosstalk) i think it was. The guy there posting pics of his PRP progress hasnt shown up for a while now.He had his done earlier than you did i believe. Lets hope he will appear soon.(with good news)

  • ItsWhatever

    Washington,

    I’m going to post whatever I feel like posting, as all men and women probably find this website and are looking for “anything.” If I come across something interesting, than I’m going to post it up, especially if it’s from a news source and is not trying to pitch you something. This forum isn’t only for NW5+, it’s for everybody concerned about their hair and their genetics. To make sweeping generalizations of what isn’t acceptable is B.S.

    I believe there is a lot more to natural anti-inflammatories and alkaline systems than we’re led to believe, based from my own experience. I totally support the HM movement going on right now, but there is no dividing line in hairloss. It sucks for everybody.

    The rationale of a balding men seems to be a bit skewed with the exception of R and a few others. I appreciate level-headed thinking, knowledge, and criticism, but this whole negative sense of self is outrageous. I couldn’t imagine being a researcher and scamming through here. I’d probably feel compelled to let the rats eat themselves rather than helping them.

    We should maintain positivity, support, and good will for everybody of all stages. Being a cry baby and some sort of forum elitist isn’t going to get anybody anywhere.

    Oh, and R. I commend you, man. Good to see you back. You give me inspiration to maintain, even though these whiners seem to overwhelm my common sense sometimes.

  • washington

    ItsWhatever… Not, it is not… is not a place to publish any thing on hairloss here, this page always starts with some heading on follica. the people do not enter here looking information on treatments for hairloss, they enter here in the hope of new discoveries medicate on HM, or (hair clone). people who enter here waiting to discover forms to keep you sweat hair with medical treatments, grass, minoxidil, finasteride, green tea etc, and because they do not know sites related only to this type of treatment. (ONE MORE TIME)ItsWhatever, hairsite… all natural suplements and diets, this is its place.

  • Artista

    Again against my better judgement,
    THE comment made was
    ” This forum isn’t only for NW5+”
    To all of us regulars here i ask you, When in the world was there ever restrictions made as to who can contribute here?
    “it’s for everybody concerned about their hair and their genetics”< A foregone conclusion. THE main focus here is that of the title. Anything else is appreciated as long as it doesnt involve insulting others,period.

  • A

    Agreed Artista well said

  • b

    Hey everyone,
    I’ve been reading this website since the first article came out and everythging seemed new and exciting as if a cure was going to come out. I am 20 years old and have have frontal balding for 5 years and of course its gotten a lot worse. I was always apprehensive about commenting because everyone just seemed to bicker. Now it is 2009 and still their is no cure and just like all of you I suffer and am upset. The only thing I wanted to share with all of you is how stupid I think it is to fight over ridiculous timelines. These things are breakthroughs and cannot have a timeline because their is an unknown process to get to the endpoint. I really must say the only reason I am writing this is because so much positive can be on this “forum”, but the ridiculous bickering over timelines turns this into something is should not be.

    B

  • Practical

    Out of curiosity about how long have the comments after an xconomy article about Follica been going on? I’ve been following it since last summer. It seems like this last one is really good news if you read between the lines. Why hire Bill Ju if they didn’t have something ready to market pretty soon. The trials are going well apparently. Has it appeared like something has been this close before then didn’t materialize? Looking at what someone says is never a good way to determine what the real story is. Actions speak louder than words but still words seem powerful as if they can grow a hair follicle. The more someone knows and can do the less they want or need to talk about it. The action of hiring Bill Ju tells us what we need to know for now. Whether the product is good or not-it’s coming soon.

  • Shooter

    Hey R, can we officially put the mercola rumors to rest or have you heard something new? IMO it has been way too long and all the new videos show not a single new strand of hair. His staff will reveal nothing and he has passed his timeline by over 3 or 4 months…

  • ItsWhatever

    Alright, Artista and washington.

    Look, I see your points and I will respect that. This whole forum is being used as a communication tool, so let me as you something relevant.

    What is your opinion about them replacing the current CEO (Zohar) with a new president and CEO (Ju)?

    Is she bailing like she has on some other joint ventures? Gracefully bowing out before the ship goes down?

    Or do you believe that they’re actually doing what they’re say they’re doing in that they’re hiring a person with relative field experience so when they breach market, they’ll have qualified people as representatives?

    I sure hope it’s the latter.

  • washington

    excellent question…I wait that yes. the problem is that same contracting a great name for the commercial market it does not indicate that we will have nothing soon. analysts of markets pass months, years studying strategies of market before launching something new. but… let us have faith.

  • ZZ

    Just my opinion but I take the hiring of Ju as a very positive sign for several reasons:
    1) The timing coincides with the end of their proof of concept study;
    2) On the surface, Ju’s resume looks pretty strong so unless he is an idiot, I don’t think he would make a move without taking a good hard look at the research and prospects; and
    3)The timing also coincides to a lesser extent with a move of the research operations from the U of Penn campus to its own incubator space off campus.

  • Artista

    ItsWhatever,
    thank you for your open candor. Its appreciated. Yes, i would agree with Washington and ZZ. Especially the 3 points that ZZ pointed out are just plain commonsense. You have to keep in mind that Follica has been backed hugely by investors. If you review Ms Zohar’s resume you will see that she has alot on her plate currently.
    It would be elementary to place someone of Dr Ju’s credentials at the helm.
    Hey, we have all been disappointed in the past. Hang in there friends. Lets see what materializes in July.

  • Maverick

    Ha,ha,ha Zohar bailing out. That is interesting because on my native language(croatian) Zohar means cockroach. :) We will see soon if Dr. Cotsarelis was true in 2004.

  • Artista

    since Maverick brings a little humor to the blog,,id like to add a filler as well. i recently purchased a vintage ukulele on Ebay at a GREAT price!!!!!! Anyone here sing?

  • Shooter

    Bailing out? She is still on the board of directors. Her expertise is in raising venture capital, not skin therapies. She has ALWAYS stated that they need an experienced CEO to actually run the company. She got replaced by a guy 10 times as qualified in terms of education and drug development/research/commercialization experience. That is not bailing out, IMO.

    ALSO, to anyone else that is going to use the “2004” argument, STOP. That article is about a COMPLETELY different technique, it is NOT the same discovery and it has NOTHING to do with Follica. THIS buzz started in May of 2007. Only two years later and I say they’ve made considerable progress.

    I”m not saying they will be successful by any stretch, but we DO have to keep our theories based on fact.

  • Shooter

    As far as when we’ll hear something. . . I doubt it will be any time soon. They (in my estimation) are not the kind of company to spread information that is not significant in the near term; their silence proves this. If something works, we will know after it has been thoroughly tested, peer reviewed, and published. Academics like Cotsarelis, Price, and Anderson work like that.

  • Name

    Hi guys,

    like a lot of ppl here I read this site for a long time… but I never write something, because of my english.

    I find this, i’m sure its not a cure but I think its a good news and its seems to go in the same direction as Follica.

    If anyone know the subject, pls let us know what is about.

    http://stemcellbaldnesscures.com/cloning/hair-cloning/scientists-discover-signal-that-turns-hair-growth-cells-back-on/

  • Shooter

    Btw, didn’t we find out that this “trial” was only dermabrasion with no WNT compound? Seems to me we wouldn’t be satisfied with these results even if they did publish them. Probably just some scientific jargon that looks good in journals but is “5 years away” in terms of treatment. Unfortunately it seems to me that the actual “human hair regrowth trial” we crave is far, far away.

    Man, this sucks so bad.

  • Artista

    Welcome to the conversations ‘Name’ please do not feel detered by the grammer or keep you from joining in Thank you for the interesting article. Someone had brought that up once before.What can one really say about it at this point? Hopefully they may come up with something great as well. Shooter thanks for adding so much more to the topic of Ms Zohar’s position with Follica. Keep an optimistic faith in all of this Shooter,,the times that we live in now may just very well pleasantly surprise you.

  • ItsWhatever

    Artista and washington, I appreciate getting back at me. Along with ZZ, that makes an awesome case for the “good side” of the situation, that’s for sure.

    Shooter,

    I don’t think it’s a bad sign in my very limited opinion. They wouldn’t have to study “just dermabrasion” for the last year. As I am sure they weren’t interested in the significant results of hairloss after dermabrasion of the scalp. That’s burning money and delaying their profit. I could see maybe a 6 month timeline for studying the cause/effect of different depths or severity, but surely not a year. Dermabrasion has been well documented and around for a hundred years or so.

    This may be the platform on which to build, but it’s not bad news, I don’t think that’s what they’re saying at all. The only issue they currently have from my understanding is WNT and it’s link to benign tumors.

    Whatever miracle forumla they used safely on mice was growing hair in 2004. That is a true statement. There has to be more progress than “Dermabrasion results.”

    Wouldn’t you think?

  • ItsWhatever

    That didn’t edit.

    Shooter,

    I doubt they would spend a year and a half merely testing the results of a plain scalp dermabrasion. Dermabrasion is very mild in any case and has been around for the better part of the century. I highly doubt they would spend the time and resources over a year to see what a dermabrasion in a scalp “does.” They already know that, and if they hadn’t before, it doesn’t take that long to learn. The skin on the head is resilient and grows back extremely fast.

    Also, The University of Pennsylvania had this same “breakthrough” that a handful of other people have had time and time again. From my limited understanding they were testing a forumla after wounding mice that regrew hair.

    So they are obviously past knowing what changes the “microenvironment” of damaged skin. Instead of scar tissue, this mouse regrew an entire patch of healthy skin, including the hair follicles.

    They UNDERSTAND the science behind what has happened in the mice. If they didn’t, I highly doubt they would risk the reputation of themselves and the institutions they represent on some lowball gamble.

    We’re talking Princeton, Harvard, Stanford, UPSM, etc…

    We’re not talking about wealthy business men, coming up with a half cocked idea and pitching it to desperate men. With the amount of noteriety, prestige, fame, and money, there is actually an all out race within the industry of true medical biologists and sciences. The data they’ve collected since is so protected, they wouldn’t even let NBC’s cameraman allowed to shoot through the windows of any of the laboratories. They are protecting something. Something important enough to create a shroud around.

    They feel threatened by the presence of somebody seeing the smallest detail of their regimen.

    That to me screams “We’re going for it!”

    2004: They regrew NEW follicles in wounded mice with this compound. Follicles that were as if they were “in a fetus.” Brand spankin’ new.

    2009: They hire a CEO with industry experience to head up marketing

    Have hope. Very rarely do people invest 16 million dollars into something they don’t think they can get their money back out of.

    I believe all of this to be promising. Especially with the input and the competition from all around the world.

    I have my own reservations about what’s hemming them up, but I’ll be exicted for any news. Hopefully the bitter hairloss industries will go quietly into the night after this end all be all of baldness rears it’s big beautiful head.

    Just a matter of time.

  • Bob

    It will for sure grow hair. As did ICX, they grew hair. The prestige is not in growing hair itself but to grow hair with enough microns and thick enough to make for a natural appearance. I’m sure they could launch something today that would grow sparse thin hair out of wounding and applying certain formulas but that is not good enough. They are looking for the Ace card, they want to grow thick hair and that is difficult indeed.

    There have been people testing novel-formulas themselves and come up with new hair but those hairs are thin and sparse, they won’t do. But that leads us to know that there is something in it, new hair can grow when there was no follicle before. So Neogenesis is a possibility. But, as mentioned, they must get it down exactly right to be able to market anything at all.

    That is the problem with ICX, it grows hair but they are too thin and that is proabably why there are no photos, just data, from their results. Aderans are working on a different formula, same principle but with a new touch. Hopefully they can get thicker hair (60 microns from ICX’s 30).

    Follica must approach this from step 1 which is Dermabrasion alone. They need to isolate each function and figure out its result separately before starting to mix and gamble.

    The first test was, as mentioned, dermabarsion alone. Next step will probably be administation of some chemicals together with dermabrasion. They will go on slowly for they have the time and the money to do this right. Hopefully we will hear at least something of their progress in a few months time.

    Until then, enjoy the summer. Something will come out, it is just a matter of time now. Until then, pop proecia, use minox or just buzz it down and relax.

  • Maverick

    “since Maverick brings a little humor to the blog,,id like to add a filler as well. i recently purchased a vintage ukulele on Ebay at a GREAT price!!!!!! Anyone here sing?”

    Well, I´m into mandolin more. Group singing like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDyMVzj5at0&feature=related

  • Shooter

    ItsWhatever, I see what you’re saying and all, but they haven’t known about this since 2004, that was a different study. The Follica dermabrasion/WNT discovery was only made in 2007. This is why I think they aren’t as far along as we’d like in terms of hair growth.

  • Artista

    Bob, thanks for the great insight and overall view of the technology as it is currently. I myself will play my ukulele in earnest til its time to make an appointment with a clinic prepared to perform what it is we all want want in life. Maverick ,,you rock,,great youtube vid. Are you the lead vocal? Where exactly are the photos showing? thanks

  • Maverick

    “Bob, thanks for the great insight and overall view of the technology as it is currently. I myself will play my ukulele in earnest til its time to make an appointment with a clinic prepared to perform what it is we all want want in life. Maverick ,,you rock,,great youtube vid. Are you the lead vocal? Where exactly are the photos showing? thanks”

    No I am not the singer of this song, but I prefer this kind of music when I am relaxing. This pictures are pictures of Dalmatia, Croatia(home of Goran Visnjic if you heard of him, E.R. episodes actor). Here are some croatian slavonian folk music with tamburitza(similar to ukulele) involved. :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGtimwyOFDA&feature=related

  • ItsWhatever

    What I’m saying, Shooter, is that the “wounding” discovery with new hair follicles after they applied a “compound” to heal the wound without scaring yielded brand new follicles systems to occur in 2004. That’s when Dr. C had his little stroke of genius. So the concept has been around for that long. So two things:

    1. They know the wound depth and how to attain the wound that led to the tissue regrowth.

    2. They used a “compound.” This compound was responsible for skin and hair cells to grow back in the mice.

    The only huge obstacle that I can see as an absolute laymen would be determing how it would work in human men/women and if it’s feasible. There’s research from all around the world, Taiwan, China, Japan, India.

    The only standing obstacles, and I know I’m being terribly simple and I understand that it’s far more complicated than I could ever imagine, would be to hault the WNT from causing that benign cancer and the stem cells from losing their identity.

    I really don’t understand why it seems as if the “hair restoration” crowd seems to be getting in the way of everything and demoralizing the hopes of many when it comes to hair multiplication. Bosley will surely have it’s way with the new technology, and just like they’ve trained men to hack up other men, I’m sure they could train the qualified doctors to extract some hair follicles, have biologists culture cells, and have the same doctor put them back in place.

    They say, “nobody makes money on a cure.” But, that’s the beauty of balding. Almost all of us have these genes, and these products do not alter our DNA, which means, they will have hundreds of millions of men going in for treatments, and probably multiple treatments as their head begins to diffuse.

    I have no idea what could be taking so long!

  • ItsWhatever

    Hey, Artista, Washington, or even R. I have another question if you’d be so gracious..

    I believe that these hair regeneration companies are looking for a silver bullet for the NW-3+ crowd.

    Do you think we’ll see a prodcut from somebody that combats diffuse thinning in the mean time? Even something that increased hair density by 20% would probably shut down rogaine overnight and take over the existing market.

    Or do you think it’s sort of an “all or nothing” attitude?

  • Artista

    Now that would be great if it did become a reality ItsWhatever. I would not be surprised if that has already been thought of and in the works. I had never thought of it myself. Well as you know July is coming up. The conference , i believe, will show many promising results. (im being conservative with my expectations,,lol)

  • washington

    I believe that these companies already have this, but to invest millions in a treatment for the end of calviçie is not the same that to take care of of thin hair. these companies are trying to make to grow hair in a smooth head, without hair, and this still has been the great problem, to make one norwood 5, 6 for norwood 2, or 1.

  • ItsWhatever

    Washington,

    I believe the same! Growing new hair as a proven concept with results has been around since the 90’s. It shouldn’t take 20 years to understand any regular process and how to recreate it, no matter how complex.

    Reminds me of all these companies that come out with drugs for type two diabetes or cholesterol medicine. Instead of just saying, we know exactly what it’s from and you need to stop doing this and stop eating this and your body will sort itself out again, but they totally ignore proven human biology that has been around for a century and sell people a drug to sustain their illness instead of cure it.

    There has to be something more to it than they “just don’t know yet.” It’s bigger than that, I feel.

    I was just wondering about a thickening agent to ramp up the hype for their silver bullet and ability to takeover the topical industry to fund their research.

    As they say “The people who the highest capacity for good, fall to the highest capacity of evil.”

    Artista, I also agree with “convservative” hopes, because these people have been bullshitting the bald community forever. Nobody knows what these people are capable of, maybe it will fail, maybe it won’t. But, they’re onto something with the mice and that gives me the greatest hope. Those hairs recreated in the mouse were white, and reportedly “growing for the first time.”

    Hell, we’re on the brink of curing blindess, cancer, and regrowing limbs with Acell dust, I couldn’t imagine what the hell is taking so long to wake up complete dorment living cells. Seems ridiculous, but all we have is hope.

  • R

    People the strategy is to create new follicles and awaken the sleepers. Many approaches with the same underlying theme…regrow a full “FULL” head of hair. This will work is the thinning is diffuse and or your are a Norwood 1 – 7. The follicles are alive but just sleeping and if you have a scar or deformed area on the body or scalp..there goal due to some of the companies being funded by the government for military use..is to regrow hair there as well.

    Just be patient and for everyones information…the MPB website natural approach is working just as well and or better than propecia. Please take a look againg at that site for healthy alternatives.

  • ItsWhatever

    I am near NW1, but that’s come within a blink of an eye and I don’t have the greatest of hair lineage. I’ve been taking blue/green algae to compensate for the “deficiencies” that come with a vegan diet. I just barely started a B-complex and gradually moved up Beta-sitosterol to 375mg. I don’t trust propecia, avodart, rogaine, proscar, etc… I would rather lose my hair than buy into those guys.

    I’m hoping this cure to be out around 2012 or earlier. Who knows what will be gone by then?!

  • J

    R (or anyone else),

    What is the MPB website? I’ve heard it mentioned a few times in this discussion, but you keep saying MPB website… what’s the actual address? I’d like to check it out.

    Thanks,

    J

  • Squadoosh

    J, http://www.hairloss-research.org/

    I’m very curious to see the test results of Histogen that should be released somewhere this month according to an e-mail conversation I’ve had with them :).

  • Shooter

    I really hope that Histogen has some news that speeds up their time to market and shows definitively that their technique yields new hair FOLLICLES. 2015 is a long time away for a thickener.

    Gotta give it to them, so far they are moving fast and providing real data with real pictures.

  • ItsWhatever

    I agree shooter.

    That would mean it has taken 25 years to make one single solitary cell “wake up.”

    Some things I will never understand. Must be an incredible process.

  • ItsWhatever

    I’m afraid I’ve become obsessed.

    I was just looking at the product that makes eyelashes thicker, darker, and longer and it passed FDA approval within the blink of an eye with only a 3 month delay by the FDA.

    They had are expecting to peak sales at 500 million dollars a year!

    And eyelash is a hair, unique as it has a very short life span and is predetermined to grow to a specific length.

    Why is this not available for just plain old hair? I’ve seen the before and after and it’s pretty incredible, but fairly expensive. It can only be approved through a doctor for people with the disorder that stops people from growing protective eyelashes, but is already starting to be the rage among novelty aesthetics.

    Edit: Check this article out. He said he’s seen major improvement among women with thinning hair using this product.

    http://www.pickartplasticsurgeryblog.com/2009/02/latisse-for-the-scalp-a-hair-tonic-that-really-works.html

    “I have a couple of female patients who have used Revitalash (containing the same active ingredient as Latisse–bimatoprost) on thinning hair with impressive results: greater numbers of thicker hair follicles.”

    He goes on to say

    “However, if I were a manufacturer of one of these two products, I’d be nervous. I’m already anxious for my colleagues that do hair plugs to treat male pattern baldness; they might soon be out of jobs!”

    This industry is full of hot air, but tell me what you guys think.

    Anybody know?

    And Artista and Washington, I’m not trying to piss you off, I would actually love to hear your thoughts even though this isn’t a cure for the NW4+ crowd.

  • Artista

    ItsWhatever,
    Why would you piss me off? You are contributing a lot of great info to this blogsite. You are one of us

  • Shooter

    ItsWhatever, that’s interesting. Don’t count on any hair transplant surgeons to give it a try, though. Nobody in that discipline is concerned with innovation. They shoot down every scientific possibility with arrogance.

    Hell most of them wouldn’t even ATTEMPT to use Acell even though it could provide unlimited donor. They knew nothing about the prduct, they just knew it wouldn’t work. Clearly, a multi-million dollar regenerative medicine firm that works with the Department of Defense does not have the same expertise as Dr. Rassman.

    Even after Dr. Hitzig proved regrowth was possible STILL no doctors are interested in furthering the research. We are talking a near-term solution for baldness and we can’t get ANY surgeons to take time out of their busy days to review the results independently.

  • Shooter

    Also, I read some safety indications for Latisse:

    “It is possible for hair growth to occur in other areas of your skin that LATISSE™ frequently touches. Any excess solution outside the upper eyelid margin should be blotted with a tissue or other absorbent material to reduce the chance of this from happening.”

    Really?

  • ItsWhatever

    Dude… Doesn’t it sound…… SWEET!!

    Haha

    But, seriously, I’m sure it’s not completely effective or the hair world would be in an uproar. It may have limited effects and it’s incredibly expensive for most people. It’s always safe to let people try these things before you, as the FDA has been known to have “whoopsies” since their inception and I would hate to know that I poisoned my hair follicles to death or caused irreversible damage, just as Histogen or Follica make their move to market…

    Big Pharma has some incredibly big skeletons in their closet and the reason this company became famous was by taking the brunt out of a toxin/poison and selling it to well off suburbian women (botox). I’ll wait this one out.

    Maybe Baccy can give it a whirl.

    And Artista, I don’t know whether to grateful or concerned that I’m considered part of the deal. Haha

  • washington

    sorry itswhaterver, but eyelashes do not fall in DHT high nives . this is the problem.

  • ItsWhatever

    But surely there’s something to this. Topical Rogaine more than likely has nothing to do with DHT but with some people it regrows hair that are well into their resting phase. From what that plastic surgeon said, he said that this was growing thicker, healthier strands of hair in women. On youtube, they say the thickness of each hair increased by 105%.

    Intercytex yielded hair that was only 30 microns thick. I wonder if used in conjunction with one another, they would be allowed to thicken the results.

    Of course I know it’s not that simple, but even then… I really believe this whole hair loss thing is coming sooner rather than later.

    Latisse makes a topical that actually THICKENS and waking up thinner hair all over the head, just imagine what kind of desperation Rogaine and all the rest of the companies are going to do. We’re talking about Bosely and Aderans losing a whole chunk of their market.

    The Darwinistic nature of capitalism is going to work into our favor.

  • washington

    ItsWhatever…Here in Brazil, already we have the rich treatment in plasma more than ha 3 years, and exactly thus nobody comments this. The Brazilian, Dr. Carlos Uebel is the inventor of this technique in the world, but we exactly do not have no really trustworthy result that works, and thus, people in the world all are commenting this technique, now used in U.S.A. .This is the reason so that we wait tests, resulted real. the world this full one of (discovered) on one cure, but nothing still it functions really in the people.

  • ItsWhatever

    The PRP just seems like another pseudo-science scam. A lot of people have obviously had the treatment and no one has really said a peep except for the people who are selling the service. I’ve seen better results in that video I posted earlier about all natural exfoliation than PRP and it’s 100 times cheaper.

    This Latisse seems different though, because they say if this thing sits on skin ANYWHERE you’re going to have “unwanted” hair growth! Which means it would create hair growth in places that we DO want it.

    Also, what is pretty miraculous is the fact that it grows the eyelashes that are predisposed to growing only a certain length and width. It has mutated them, growing twice as long and 105% more regarding thickness.

    Though it doesn’t battle DHT, it certainly seems like it is spuring a growth cycle in the hair that lasts longer, thrives better, and produces higher quality hair.

    But, there is never NOT a drawback and I’m interested to see what that is in time!

  • washington

    ItsWhatever…already year passed in hairsite was said on this medicine, does not remember well when, but, you can porcurar there that she goes to find some thing on it. But, they had not said nothing of good on this product.

  • JimQ

    ItsWhatever
    6/10/09 1:49 pm

    “I am near NW1”
    ———————
    No wonder its so easy to call others out for their “pity party”, or tell NW6 and 7’s to “get over it”.

  • AG

    I do sometimes wonder whether either Histogen or Follica would potentially be able to get away with marketing their products as a cosmetic for FDA approval purposes, and be able to avoid the lengthy process for drugs?

    For the FDA, a cosmetic is defined as:

    (i) The term “cosmetic” means (1) articles intended to be rubbed, poured, sprinkled, or sprayed on, introduced into, or otherwise applied to the human body or any part thereof for cleansing, beautifying, promoting attractiveness, or altering the appearance, and (2) articles intended for use as a component of any such articles; except that such term shall not include soap.

    The only qualifier on that is that is should not change the body’s ‘structure’ or ‘function’ in which case it would require more lengthy process.

    Seeing as Histogen is aiming for 2015, I would guess they’re definitely going down the drug route.

    And given something like Minoxidil had to go down that route as well, I would probably expect Follica to.

    I also wonder whether the fact that Follica you’d need to apply for one period (rather than everyday for ever like Minox) would impact on the length of the trials and approval process as well.

    Last thing – as Histogen’s regenica for skin is for sale, anyone considered ordering some, injecting it into the scalp and seeing what happens? I’m guessing results wouldn’t exactly be impressive (otherwise why bother with the whole separate product) but with the same base compound, you can’t help but be curious!

  • Flip

    Hi All

    I would just like some advice concerning a regime i have adopted:

    Curcumin/Reverstarol
    Indole 3 Carinbonal
    0.25 propecia
    Soy Isoflavons

    Can someone please give me some friendly advice as to whether in theory this sounds good?

    I have just started and im worried im loosing more hair

    Thank you for your time

    FLIP

  • A

    Hey Flip, good regimen, good to see you didnt let people scare you into not taking propecia. How badly are you losing hair, i would point out that using Nizoral 2% 2 – 3 times a week is also i good idea it was used in the trails with propecia and has been shown to be a good tool in fighting mpb. But so far you set a good solid ground base.

  • jordan

    hi guys! any news from follica and histogen yet??

  • Maverick

    I guess we are all waiting for july.

  • dave

    when do we find out about thomas whitfield?

  • Maverick

    Well he should be done around january 2010 but if you ask me I think he is just another joker.

  • Maverick
  • G

    Mega LOL @ “…just another joker”.

  • G

    R,
    in your last post you’ve mentioned again “awaken the sleepers”. Where did you read that? From all the articles & interviews i’ve read NO ONE claimed to be working on a treatment that awakens/enlarges minitaurized hair.

    1. Aderans claim neogenesis(new hair)
    2. Intercytex said that they are not sure and that both processes could be at work – but their technique doesn’t really work.
    3. Follica has only claimed de-novo hair(new hair).
    4. Thomas Whitfield, as Maverick put it, is just another joker :)

  • Squadoosh

    Maverick 6/16/09 12:32 pm
    “Thomas Whitfield: The Oxford student who plans to make baldness a thing of the past”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/yourbusiness/brightideas/4268434/Thomas-Whitfield-The-Oxford-student-who-plans-to-make-baldness-a-thing-of-the-past.html

    lol: To add to his credibility, he has already founded a successful internet venture called Miomi.com , which plots user-generated personal histories.

    Website is hacked :D

  • G

    haha…man, we really shouldn’t expect anything from this Whitfield guy.

  • Shooter

    Why are we expecting things in July? I think Aderans started their trials in late May… that is not enough time to publish anything.

  • Squadoosh

    Shooter, because of the ISHRS that will have a meeting at the end of july. I assume there will be some updating then.

  • Maverick

    “lol: To add to his credibility, he has already founded a successful internet venture called Miomi.com , which plots user-generated personal histories.

    Website is hacked :D”

    Yeah he maybe did, but some turkish guy named Sanali Birakti is now admin, so if you have any questions I believe that he will gladly answer you or hack you, whatever. :)

  • Squadoosh

    I wonder if he’s able to hack my scalp and exec some DHT anti-virus. Maybe I should ask him.

  • R

    Update…Mercolas staff are not commenting on his treatment or progress and I guess we have to wait until Mercola himself updates the articles. By his current pictures and videos, the treatment looks like a bust. However, he may be trying the chemicals / treatment on an area where we cannot see for the interim. I will try to post updates (real viable updates) as they arise.

  • Rx

    Mercola is growing hair out of his butt I guess. It’s going to be awhile guys. Smile and be happy about life. Real women will flow in. A masculine and relaxed image is what makes a man attractive.

  • JimQ

    # R
    6/17/09 3:53 pm

    “Update…Mercolas staff are not commenting on his treatment or progress and I guess we have to wait until Mercola himself updates the articles. By his current pictures and videos, the treatment looks like a bust. However, he may be trying the chemicals / treatment on an area where we cannot see for the interim. I will try to post updates (real viable updates) as they arise.”
    ————–
    Of course its a bust! There is no method around that will give a bald man a full head of hair, short of a wig.

    “Smile and be happy about life. Real women will flow in. A masculine and relaxed image is what makes a man attractive.”

    That might be true, but in my age group, women are not attracted to balding guys covered in acne/rosacea, no matter how masculine I pretend to be. But, in the end, thats what prostitutes or suicide are for.

  • Rx

    JimQ what am I going to do with you. When it’s time and you’re ready, a woman will come to you. In the meantime pray about it and that time may arrive sooner rather than later.

  • Metsie

    Say it aint so R!
    When did you start dipping into the pessimism Kool-Aid.
    Remember, not till its posted or quoted.

  • JimQ

    # Rx
    6/17/09 9:10 pm

    JimQ what am I going to do with you. When it’s time and you’re ready, a woman will come to you. In the meantime pray about it and that time may arrive sooner rather than later.
    ——————————-
    I don’t pray. Not religious at all.

  • Artista

    Metsie is so very RIGHT

  • weisalmaneisal

    R, I was wondering if you no why the mbp research site has closed down? I have started a protocol but was looking to expand on it. I cant really remember what was on the site . What would you suggest? I’m an NW1 and poss a NW2 on a bad day and 26. yr old. My protocol as it stands is Nizoral, curcumin 1 cap a day, saw palmetto 2 caps a day, soy isoflav. 1 a day, g-tea ext. 1 a day, and 2 fish oils a day. What would u suggest matey?

  • G

    The site hasn’t closed down, the owner forgot(or didn’t bother) to renew the domain. If someone has owner’s info, he/she should let him know.

  • A

    lol great website that is. I find it amusing this website just stopped overnight. If this website was doing good this thing wouldnt happen, maybe people have decided to take the PROVEN way to stop hair loss until something real comes out.

  • R

    Don’t know why the site is down or changed. This is the message I got!

    Site Down

    MPB Research website is temporarily down and will be restored in short order. In the mean time, if you have any questions, please give us a call at 1888-577-4247 or (321)733-5933. We apologize for the inconvenience.

    Looks like he was bought out due to the natural stuff working as good as the pharma stuff. This isn’t new to see corporate pirates buy-out the natural competitor. Now the site sell HT’s, TV Products, wigs etc.. This is a bad sign for the natuarl path and maybe a lack of near term hope.

    This could be nothing but I see this as very bad due to the content that replaced it!!!

  • Metsie

    Maybe they realized that Follica is really onto something and that sites like that may go the way of the dinosaur soon. Perhaps one last chance to make a buck or 2 letting the usual suspects pawn their junk.
    Guess its just how you look at it.

  • weisalmaneisal

    R,would u be able to make any suggestions on how i should expand my protocol? cheers.

  • R

    The MPB website is back -up. Just follow the mens protocol. You do not have to take everything…but I would try the natural stuff before the pharma meds. Also, we should hear more news on trials with Follica in the near future. Mercola should have an update soon and will state yea / nay based on his progress. But looking at his pictures, I hope he is experimenting on the back of his head. Histogen and others are working hard so please everyone…wait and don’t take pharma meds or HT’s if you can help it. Give yourself time and believe me it trully doesn’t matter to real women if your bald!!!!

    http://www.hairloss-research.org/

  • dave

    hey the whitfield guy deserves a fair chance like everyone else. people get excited over mercola but not a oxford genuis?? i bet he has something

  • JimQ

    # dave
    6/20/09 7:38 am

    hey the whitfield guy deserves a fair chance like everyone else. people get excited over mercola but not a oxford genuis?? i bet he has something
    —————————————-
    If he has something, which is next to impossible considering well funded companies have been at it for years, it will take a long time to market. You can’t sell something that claims to regrow hair without proving your claim to the FDA, at least in America.

  • A

    Well then America can wait 10 years for their trials, i guarentee if he has something the rest of the world wont be waiting. No Trials required in Australia, Asia and probably Europe you would make billions there FDA kills america which is why a viable treatment will come from Europe.

  • dave

    some people talk as if america is the only place on earth. i dont know about aus, but most of asia requires no trails at all. the guys not an idiot, he obvoiusly knows about the fda. if hes claiming one year then he must have a way although i agree when you said that it seems hard since multi million dollar companies have been working on a cure but theres always a chance, plus the article was from a very reputable source

  • Bob

    Well, I for one assume that a product that has undergone the FDA trials is safe and works very well. If a product is to succeed without the FDA trials it needs to be really really good and even if it is good there will not be any guarantes on how safe it is. The FDA is much more than a time-killer, it provides a safe window to the drugs/tools used.

    I am not sure I would like to put something on my head that hasn’t undergone clear trials for at least 5 years. No matter how many hairs it grows.

    But maybe that is just me.

  • Rx

    Yeah Bob that is just you

  • Shooter

    Hey all. The Thomas Whitfield claim is interesting, though I personally am not expecting a “cure for baldness.” Most people who say that don’t truly understand the complexity of the disease.

    Also, Dr. Rassman said on his “balding blog” that European patent filings are published in 6 months. That is a straight LIE. He has no idea what he is talking about. I looked everywhere and it takes 18 months like usual.

  • weisalmaneasal

    thanks R. Yeah I rate that thomas whitfield is well onto something as too. You don’t get Phds from Oxford University in bio-chemistry without being exceptionally intelligent. I find it hard hard to beleive that he would put go out on a limb, in the fashion that he has, without having something. My reckoning is that it’ll be something that ‘ll maintain or give slight regrowth and wont be fantastically helpful for alot of people on here, unfortunately.

  • A

    Thank you for your message and interest. The preliminary clinical trial of ReGenica for hair regrowth has been completed, and the data is currently under evaluation. The current expected timeframe for market introduction is 2015, based upon the timelines for clinical trials and regulatory approval within the United States. Bringing the product to market outside the US within a shorter timeframe is a possibility we are examining, however no plans have been made in this area.

    If I can answer any further questions, please feel free to contact me directly at the email below.

    Thank you,

    Eileen Naughton Brandt

    Director of Corporate Communications

    Histogen, Inc.

    619.318.7821

    You know they will market it outside usa first and make millions of dollars, So maybe just maybe 2015 Timeline will only apply to americans. Come on Histogen lol

  • ZZ

    For those interested in PRP, see Dr. Feller’s first pics of a prp patient and related comments. Probably only of interest for those looking to maintain w/a possible kick.

    http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1466060861/m/193100372/p/3

    The jury is still out on prp as a maintence procedure for hair but there is no doubt that it is based on a scientifically sound foundation and it has been very effective in the orthopedic area in repairing various injuries. Apparently, it works by helping to repair the structures that it comes in contact with. There is a more potent version of prp that is just starting to be used in the orthopedic field that uses Bone Marrow (google – bone marrow aspirate concentrate). It has been recommended to me by an orthopod as it has been shown to regrow surface cartilege. I suspect that this will find its way into the hair loss arena shortly. Like PRP’s growth factors, apparently the blank slate stem cells in the bone marrow are able repair, to a greater degree, the types of structures they come in contact with.

    I doubt this will be a silver bullet alternative but if this turns out to have any legs, there is no FDA approval needed as it is an autologous (removed from and put back in your own body)procedure.

  • Shooter

    Ok, so I went to the InCube Labs website(place where Thomas Whitfield is currently developing his product) and found some very cool statements. Namely:

    “Our mission is to develop high-growth companies that solve major clinical problems through technological innovation.

    InCube’s process starts by identifying major unmet clinical needs, understanding their underlying disease processes, and then evaluating available treatments. As our team gain insights into these issues, we focus on the most effective and simple ways to treat conditions. Every time we form a company, our goal is to develop practical medical therapies that restore health and function for large populations of patients.

    Our approach to healthcare solutions is driven, not by available technologies, but by the most effective and simple way of treating a condition. When we see an opportunity to significantly improve clinical outcomes for large patient populations, we act.”

    The companies that InCube develops usually sell for about 100 million – 500 million dollars. A lot of the current companies they are invested in are in “stealth mode” which is something that was referred to in the initial article about Thomas Whitfield.
    Thomas Whitfield said that he was focused on a solution that was “quite simple” which fits into the mantra of InCube Labs: The simplest, most effective solutions to problems that plague large populations.

    Also, further reading throughout the website suggested that entrepreneurs go to InCube already with a solution in mind, and InCube gives them honest feedback and the 100% devotion if the idea is good. This means that he has a solution (not just a problem he wants to solve), and it’s just a matter of efficacy I guess.

    If there is any place on earth that this guy belongs, it’s InCube Labs. These people know about medicine and the FDA so I doubt that he could make a 1 year claim without it having SOME truth to it.

    That being said… these types of things always seem to fail or have limited effectiveness. So we have that against us.

  • Maverick

    Well he claimed that he will solve baldness in a year. If he fails we will find him and kick his ass, that goes for Cotsarelis too. :D

  • jordan

    hi guys, i read in the sun newspaper today that botox injections can grow hair. have any of you heards this before?

  • commonsense
  • R

    The procyniadins (not spelled correctly) was introduced through the shampoo regnerex I believe or something like it with grave consequences to the consumer that caused greater hair loss. The supplement was used with other formulas so alone I can not state its effectiveness, but please be careful unless there is solid research.

    The product is coming back as a stand alone so maybe it will work? The botox injection I have heard of before but we need a controlled study to test its true effectivness.

    You see.. the paitient for which it was used for had cancer and server pain on her head. The husband a doctor injected Botox to relieve the pain. Hair grew, but hair normally grows back in cancer patients. So we need to test the drug / poision on a diverse balding people at multiple stages to determine if this will work for the balding population.

    Sorry…this one is many years away unless the FDA shoots it across the market pathway. Think about the trials and particpants, dosage and additional studies for the greatest effect if any and the resulting side effects if any. Also, how many injections and is this a one time injection that alters the pathway and continues the growth of hair or multiple injections etc…

    I hope and pray I am wrong people, but much to elicit for viability regarding botox and the stated apple extract above.

  • A

    It will only take a short while to get a viable cure out to Europe asia and Australia though, so its all good just fly over here.

  • DHT

    Has any one seen this or tried to use it…can this be true? No one has really looked at this before – the idea of removing DHT build up where it causes a problem – most people are focussing on removal of DHT from source – propecia etc – this way make more sense to me but is it possible?
    http://www.scalpure.com

  • G

    R, You mentioned that Follica will regrow existing hairs as well as creating new hair. Where did you read the claim about enlarging minitaurized follicles??

    This whitfield guy has about 6 months left to own upto his claim. Coming Jan-Feb, We’ll see if he was just wanking around or actually deserves a nobel prize.

  • washington

    new photos of intercytex in the 2008 end… Somebody knows of where would be this photo? it does not seem to be of the head. http://www.tvlsn.org/tvls/images/events/intercytex.pdf

  • A

    Further to what DHT posted here is some more on Scalpure http://www.prweb.com/releases/hair_loss/DHT_hair_loss/prweb2558104.htm and also botox wow who woulda thought.

  • jordan

    ok so botox may not be coming soon, its still follica and histogen and this tom fella. fingers crossed!!

  • WASHINGTON

    new photos of intercytex in the 2008 end. SEE IN HAIRSITE.

  • Shooter

    Hey, does anyone have any information on the phase 2 trials Aderans is doing? Did anyone sign up?

    Is there any timeline or information about the approach they are using and number of volunteers?

    Ever since ICX flopped, Aderans is the biggest HM player. I just want to know if there is any word from the company about phase 1 or the probability of success. (I know very little about this process)

  • washington

    new photos of intercytex in the 2008 end… Somebody knows of where would be this photo? it does not seem to be of the head. (Your comment is awaiting moderation. Until your comment is approved it will not be visible to other readers).

  • Artista

    Since when has it been publicly established that ICX has flopped? What have you read that i havent? As far as i know these companies are still in the closet pertaing to their respective progress. Common sense would tell you that the upcoming ISHRS conference in July will be the platform in which the medical information and possible boasting will be shared. Speaking of boasting ,that is all Thomas Whitfield has contributed since when was it , last year?
    Even with his higher education ,he is just another guy to me.

  • ZZ

    For a little momentum heading toward the July 4th holidays, Histogen tells me they are very pleased with the results of their recently completed clinical trial, they are getting close to closing out their Series A funding and that we should expect to see a peer reviewed paper summarizing the results posted on their website in about 2 weeks.

    Lets hope that’s the case and the results are good!

  • Artista

    ZZ,,,,THANKS for the little bit of optimism. PPl here are getting restless,,can you tell?

  • Shooter

    Artista, no I haven’t read any news that says “Hi, we’re from ICX and we failed.” lol

    The thing is, phase 2 trials do not have 17 people in them. That is hardly confidence in a working procedure, and the statistics they posted most recently were not effective enough to market. They just aren’t.

    Aderans (bosley) can buy ICX at any time, but they choose not to… clearly because they think the procedure is not that good. To me, a procedure that is not of enough cosmetic benefit to market is a flop.

  • Shooter

    ZZ, you’ve made Old Gregg very happy.

    Let’s all keep our fingers crossed for NEW FOLLICLES Cotsarelis style.

  • Stranger

    Hi,

    Anybody posting here still.. if there is new link , please pass that info..
    Can you help a depressed candidate who tried to end his life because of baldness.. Just some encouraging words as we all hope by end of Q3 2009 ( this year ) cure will be in place..

    I’m being optimistic.. I was pessimistic few years before , but the way things are going I can be sure a cure will be in place as expected..

    No one is knowing whats happening with Follica , as they are the only hope since ICX methodology didn’t yield desired result..

  • JimQ

    # ZZ
    6/24/09 6:02 pm

    For a little momentum heading toward the July 4th holidays, Histogen tells me they are very pleased with the results of their recently completed clinical trial, they are getting close to closing out their Series A funding and that we should expect to see a peer reviewed paper summarizing the results posted on their website in about 2 weeks.

    Lets hope that’s the case and the results are good!
    ===========================================
    In my opinion, Histogen is the only company that has even half a chance at this.
    They’re actually going the route of academic science… I think I read that they will present results at an American Academy of Dermatology conference. Not some BS IHRS conference.

  • jordan

    come on histogen!! if follica and histogen came out at the same time, i wouuld rather go to histogen as they communicate with us! good news guys! anyone got the link to histogens website?

  • Mark

    # Stranger
    6/25/09 6:49 am

    Hi,

    Anybody posting here still.. if there is new link , please pass that info..
    Can you help a depressed candidate who tried to end his life because of baldness.. Just some encouraging words as we all hope by end of Q3 2009 ( this year ) cure will be in place..

    I’m being optimistic.. I was pessimistic few years before , but the way things are going I can be sure a cure will be in place as expected..

    No one is knowing whats happening with Follica , as they are the only hope since ICX methodology didn’t yield desired result..
    —————————————–

    Cure by the end of 2009???? Thats not optimistic, thats delusional.

  • Shooter

    JimQ – How can you say Histogen is the only company with a half chance? They are only piggy-backing on the knowledge Follica initially brought to light. Also, Histogen IS presenting at the ISHRS conference because a lot of their research is conducted by Craig Ziering (a transplant doc). IMO, they have the smallest probability of success and the lengthiest timeline (even though I hope I’m wrong). Follica, btw, invented the term “going the route of academic science.”

    Mark – There will definitely NOT be a cure by the end of 2009 (as you stated). But I think what stranger was saying is that we will get results from Acell, Aderans, Follica, Histogen OR Thomas Whitfield by that time that definitively shows proof of concept on humans (supporting the notion that a cure is coming). This is probably wishful thinking (as they might all fail) but we will get information by the end of 2009 from all of them, regardless.

    Jordan – Histogeninc.com

  • Artista

    Just wanted to say to ‘Stranger’ to NOT lose hope. There is much empathy here for you my friend ~you are not alone. AND~ there IS hope! Stick around to share in the hair treatment revelations to come. I believe you/us will see good things to come thanks to 21 century med/science. But IF there are disappointments,then let us all be disappointed TOGETHER. Its a matter of adaptation.

  • Rick

    You guys are dopes. Ain’t no cure for baldness coming. Forget about it.

  • Squadoosh

    Rick, u still think the earth is flat don’t ya?

  • Rick

    I don’t think the Earth is flat. No. I’ve seen pictures of it.
    What I haven’t seen is a picture of anything, anywhere, growing real hair on a bald man’s head.
    Never.

  • Shooter

    Artista, that was very well said.

  • Rx

    Time waits for nobody. Like sands through the hourglass, so are the scientific discoveries of our lives. Progress seems to happen overnight..the wheel..horseless carriage..flying machines..vaccine for polio..a cure for baldness.

    Pop music died today guys. May you rest in peace Michael. You are the greatest.

  • 4th

    Hi Artista, ZZ, and loyal others, thanks for keeping thread alive, its always nice to see the glimmer of hope that we all can provide.

  • A

    Umm Rick hate to break it to you buddy but Histogen clearly showed New hairs on a Head. So what do you have to say now?

  • ZZ

    FYI – The link below is over a year old and I must have missed it. It talks about the discovery of another piece of the puzzle (Elaine Fuchs, again). I don’t know how many peices of the puzzle there are, but so many little things have been discovered that I can’t help but think that the odds of completely connecting the dots to a silver bullet solution have to be going up exponentially with each discovery.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080124132512.htm

  • Stranger

    Hi,

    Thanks for all the hope.. I just wanted not to let my hope down..

    Folks,
    Why is that nobody is listening to us.. Follica for an instance , not even telling the progress.. NEOHS01 was stopped in the middle.. When the cure takes the depression out , which inturn results in all diseases – Why nobody atleast care our pleas.. Life is not always money right , they always think in business perspective.. ?? Whats that they are going to get at the last , hope they rest peacefully by ignoring our pleas..
    Sorry guys , blurted out.. It is that , the whole world is mocking us with their money power and deceptive concepts..

  • Rick

    ZZ
    6/26/09 7:07 am

    FYI – The link below is over a year old and I must have missed it. It talks about the discovery of another piece of the puzzle (Elaine Fuchs, again). I don’t know how many peices of the puzzle there are, but so many little things have been discovered that I can’t help but think that the odds of completely connecting the dots to a silver bullet solution have to be going up exponentially with each discovery.
    ————————————
    Maybe. By the time all the dots are connected and a treatment is made available, we’re all going to be in our 70’s, and you guys know it.

  • Maverick

    “Maybe. By the time all the dots are connected and a treatment is made available, we’re all going to be in our 70’s, and you guys know it.”

    Well that depends how old are you now. :) Come on Rick heads up.

  • Artista

    To all here,,ignore Ricks negativities.
    Logically, if he were so sure of himself and actually believed all of what he had said then he would NOT be HERE now.
    In reality he is here because he too is very hopeful for good sound treatment.No matter, The first clue to his character type was when he started his diatribe by calling us ‘dopes’. Remember what is said about pointing a finger…

  • Artista

    By the way,,thank you Shooter.
    Losing hair to some of us can be even so much more desvastating than it is to others as ‘Stranger’ had touched on.
    Folks we are now into a new age in medical science. For example, Acell has been able to actually regenerate someones finger tip that he lost from just above the first knuckle to the tip FULLY ,nail and all,using experimental treatments they have been developing. Actual regeneration! Doctors are now transplanting full LIMBS, HANDS and even FACES! Not to mention internal organs etc etc.
    For those of you that know of people who still believe that there will never be an effective ‘treatment’ or anything in the nearer future for MPB, tell them to research the development for the polio vaccince. Prior to its CURE people were skeptical and pessimistic. Human desire,the need, want,, medical research ,medical ingenuity and FUNDINGS for a cure found prime results. Its taken for granted and their are some people who dont know about polio at all.
    MPB ,of course, is no where near as pertinent nor a major health risk in comparrison to what the polio
    scourge of those times were.
    It has been now well over 50 years now since those times in our history. Do not listen to the pessimisims you may read here my friends. You keep the faith and adapt if you have to.

  • Rick

    # Maverick
    6/26/09 12:23 pm

    “Maybe. By the time all the dots are connected and a treatment is made available, we’re all going to be in our 70’s, and you guys know it.”

    Well that depends how old are you now. :) Come on Rick heads up.

    ———————————–
    I’m in my 20’s.
    You guys do know that Follica is connected to xconomy, right?

  • Rick

    “Doctors are now transplanting full LIMBS, HANDS and even FACES! Not to mention internal organs etc etc.”

    Ever seen a face transplant? They come out looking barely human.
    Someone said Histogen is “pleased with their results”. Yes. Histogen is pleased that in 10 years or so, they may or may not have a treatment (Not a cure) that works a little better (and might be slightly less poisonous) than Propecia.

  • RIck

    I’ll bet anyone on here that in 10 years there will not be a treatment that is more effective than Propecia.
    There will be more scams, like A&G and that asshole Whitfield, but nothing real for 10 years, absolute minimum.
    If I’m wrong, I will let anyone who wants to come to my house and punch me repeatedly in the nuts.

  • Shooter

    Rick, I understand the need to be pragmatic in regards to MPB treatments, but you are just a downright pessimist.

    “You guys know follica is connected to xconomy, right?”

    What is that like a conspiracy? Among other firms, Follica is connected to Polaris ventures, Puretech ventures, Interwest Partners, Merck, Genentech, a couple ivy-league universities, J&J, Roche and Aderans.

    It’s one of those things where we live in a global, fast-paced, information sharing economy. Follica needs press releases and networking opportunities in the Boston area; x-conomy provides that. I have NO clue what you’re talking about. And yes, we are all aware.

    “Histogen is pleased that in 10 years or so…”

    Histogen has repeatedly stated a 2015 release in America (due to FDA) and possibly sooner in another country where fewer tests are necessary. That is 5.5 years away at the worst… about half of your estimate. Also, even the best Propecia trials never showed one new hair follicle.

    “Maybe by the time all the dots are connected we will be in our 70s, and you guys know it.”

    You have not the slightest clue what is down the path 50 years from now (in your case). Thank god these companies don’t employ people like you. You probably do think the world is flat, FedEx will never work, no one on earth would ever want a personal computer, polio is incurable, and everything worth patenting was invented by 1899.

    Be skeptical, be wary, be pragmatic, but don’t be stupid. None of these things may work, or all of these things may work. It might take 1 year, it might take 50. But none of that will change based on your negativity. You aren’t doing anyone a favor, we all know the odds.

  • Metsie

    Rick stop it now.
    Stop pretending your above us with your down to earth wisdom. Your just a bitter 20something idiot who is just as hopeful as the rest of us.

  • Rick

    # Metsie
    6/26/09 3:00 pm

    Rick stop it now.
    Stop pretending your above us with your down to earth wisdom. Your just a bitter 20something idiot who is just as hopeful as the rest of us.
    —————————————
    Down to earth wisdom?? No.
    Look at it this way. If there were a viable treatment for baldness that didn’t result in growing tits, it would make billions of dollars. Companies have been trying to cash in on that for years. None have succeeded.
    What else is there to say?
    Stop it now? Who the fuck do you think you are? Fuck off. I can say what I want.
    The problem is that I say things that everyone here knows to be true.

  • Metsie

    How did I know you were going to shoot back with “I can say whay I want.” Your very predictable.
    Ok we all know it to be true. Your right, we’re all fools. Now you can ignore us and and move on. Thanks, you just ruined my weekend. Are you happy?? LOL

  • Shooter

    Rick man, you can disagree without cursing people out. At this point it is clear that you choose to disregard fact in favor of spewing predictable and juvenille rhetoric.

    We might all be crazy and delusional but at least we can get along. This board is for sharing information and trying to get answers ahead of the curve… to that end you have contributed nothing.

    No one can force you to leave, but it would be embarrassing for you to respond further.

  • Rick

    If I ruined anyone’s weekend, then that person needs to get on anti-depressant pills quickly.

    Then there’s this:
    Shooter
    6/26/09 4:34 pm

    Rick man, you can disagree without cursing people out. At this point it is clear that you choose to disregard fact in favor of spewing predictable and juvenille rhetoric.
    —————————————-
    What facts am I disregarding? The fact that a number of companies are in the very early, theoretical stages of hair loss research? The fact that because companies have theories about how they might cure hair loss in the future automatically means to some people on here that a life saving treatment will be out in a couple of years?
    Secondly, if people can call me an idiot, then I can tell them to fuck off. Deal with it.

  • rev

    Rick, People are mad at you because you’re being needlessly pessimistic and your comments are riddled with misinformation. Luckily there’s a place that thrives on that type of behavior; it’s called hairsite.

  • Shooter

    Clinical trials are not early theoretical stages of research. They are concerned with assessing the safety and efficacy of treatments (that have already been fully developed) in a human model. Clinical trials are the latest stages of development before marketing. They determine whether or not a solution to a problem “sinks or swims” when applied to a large population, and the most efficient method of delivery. Aderans, Histogen and most likely Follica are in human trials. Deal with it.

  • Metsie

    Rickster
    You didnt ruin my weekend, dont flatter yourself, it was sarcasm.
    If you really want to burst our bubble bring facts stating that Follica and friends failed miserbly, then you will get your wish. Until then I have to turn my back on you dude and I suggest everybody else do thesame. The poor fellas unreachable.

  • ItsWhatever

    Rick, everybody is sorry about your insecurities. In fact, I’m sure some of these fine gentleman have already called a WAAHmbulance, so it should be there shortly. They might even bring you a binky, tuck you in at night, and tell you that all the things you hate about yourself are the faults of other people.

    Disagreeing with somebody is different than just being a prick because you lack the rationale and ability to speak to people.

    You’re an adult. Act like one.

  • Andrew

    Will Follica work on the temples? I’ll be trying it out next week when my liposomal Genistein (EGFR inhibitor) cream arrives.

  • A

    So i will say it again, new follicles have been created through Histogens treatment and that is using 1 single injection to test for safety. So if this approach is completely safe and they can do 1000 injections all growing hair then cha ching, we are in. Rick you sound like me, and in a slight way i agree with you. Propecia is the single biggest way to fight hairloss. But it wont be in the future, propecia is a dated drug which is on its last legs. Get with the times man. One of these companies will be successful HECK Histogen and Intercytex ALREADY ARE because they have proof they can grow hair on our heads.

    Cheers.

  • Artista

    As i have said before friends,
    if Rick were so sure of himself he WOULD NOT be here now wasting his time. Misery enjoys company as you all well know. He is awaiting some good news as all of us are. Is anger and immaturity a factor? Yes probably.

  • Artista

    One more thing. To respond to a juvenile comment made earlier. Face transplant surgery is in its INFANT stage of development. OF COURSE the beginnings will be crude but you must remember the pics shown thus far are not that of the ‘finished’ state of appearance. Either you entirely missed the point as to WHY i mentioned it(medical advancements) or you chose to be callous.

  • Rick

    Arista, fuck you.
    Point to one FDA trial for Aderans, Histogen, ICX or Follica on the clinicaltrials.gov page.
    Otherwise, admit that you’re full of shit.
    I’m not immature, I’m realistic.

    “Face transplant surgery is in its INFANT stage of development. OF COURSE the beginnings will be crude”

    And you think the first generation of follica is going to be any different?? Keep in mind that face transplant surgery has actually been performed on humans, something that is not true of any of these theoretical hair loss treatments.
    Follica has to go through the FDA. If you think otherwise, you’re delusional. You can’t release a product that claims to grow hair without first proving that to the FDA.

  • Artista

    See folks ,that response was so disjointed from what i had said, entirely. And again, if i were Rick and actually believed my own words i wouldn’t be HERE now wasting my time. Unless of course i were miserable and angry and wanted some company. “Follica has to go through the FDA” Who here said otherwise? Rick its true, there never will be a CURE for MPB. There WILL be revolutionary TREATMENT. Hang in there. Join us in a common goal~ don’t alienate yourself.

  • A

    lol. Dude please. Clearly Intercytex has completed phase II trials, Histogen is finished phase I aderans is undergoing phase II now this is all common knowledge regardless of weather its on a website or not. Let it go dude. There is evidence of new hair growth that has pictures to document that, if you cant deal with pictorial facts then get fucked and go somewhere else ok. Your attitude is retarded.

  • Artista

    ‘A’ notice that he is STILL here? What does that tell you?

  • Rick

    My response is not disjointed at all. The problem for you, is that it makes sense.
    I am angry that I’m going bald young, yes. That doesn’t allow me to believe things that are simply untrue.
    Your logic is that because I’m here, then I must believe that these companies are going to succeed. Really, thats your only argument. Your argument basically consists of “Be optimistic, for reasons that we can’t explain.”
    Go to the clinical trials.gov page. Find Aderans/Follica/Histogen. You can’t? They’re not there. None are currently in FDA trials.
    That is a fact.
    None will be here in less than 10 years. That is a fact.

  • Shooter

    Rick, your ignorance is pissing me off man. You don’t have to report trials to clinicaltrials.gov unless they are life saving procedures. Do some reading before you run your mouth. Go to the damn website for Christ’s sake, none of the trials (even after they are fully completed) are obligated to show any results to anybody. That website is a bureaucratic initiative to make people (like you) feel as if they have a handle on the future of their healthcare, nothing more.

    Also, there are other countries than America with other regulatory agencies than the FDA.

  • R

    Wow, it is just hair??????? I have witnessed tooooooo many women (hot women) with bald men so please relax. The effort to solve this on going so calm down. Rivk and others if you believe this all bull shit then leave. It is that simple,

  • Rick

    Shooter
    6/27/09 11:57 am

    Rick, your ignorance is pissing me off man. You don’t have to report trials to clinicaltrials.gov unless they are life saving procedures
    ==============================================
    On that point, I stand corrected.

  • Rick

    # R
    6/27/09 12:03 pm

    Wow, it is just hair??????? I have witnessed tooooooo many women (hot women) with bald men so please relax. The effort to solve this on going so calm down. Rivk and others if you believe this all bull shit then leave. It is that simple,

    ———————————–
    Of course there are men who look fine bald. I would never argue otherwise. Most don’t.
    Leave? Get xconomy to ban me, Mr. Buderi (thats right, I know who you are). Otherwise…

  • Shooter

    Also, not everyone here is concerned with the completion of trials. Some people are just looking for solid proof of concept to put their minds at ease. Some people like to talk about natural supplements effective for maintaining existing hair. Some people like to piss everyone off.

    …but no matter how many facts you are confronted with, you are only concerned with one: “It won’t work.”

    How childish. You think you are the only person with a brain suffering from MPB? We know the odds, we know the history, we know the science, we know the failures… but we aren’t ignorant enough to assume that the only outcome ever is always failure.

  • Rick

    # Shooter
    6/27/09 12:07 pm

    Also, not everyone here is concerned with the completion of trials. Some people are just looking for solid proof of concept to put their minds at ease. Some people like to talk about natural supplements effective for maintaining existing hair. Some people like to piss everyone off.

    …but no matter how many facts you are confronted with, you are only concerned with one: “It won’t work.”

    How childish. You think you are the only person with a brain suffering from MPB? We know the odds, we know the history, we know the science, we know the failures… but we aren’t ignorant enough to assume that the only outcome ever is always failure.

    ————————————-

    I’ve never said I assumed these companies would fail.
    “Proof of concept”, and then how many years to market? I don’t give a shit what my hair looks like when I’m 50, I care about what it looks like in my 20’s and 30’s when it matters.
    Sorry to undercut your ignorant, stupid, childish (I want it now so it must be coming) optimism.

  • Maverick

    You my friend can believe in anything you want and it is your right to be pessimistic. But to say that nothing will happen in less than 10 years is simply not true because you or anyone here absolutely can´t tell what will happen in a year from now on let alone 5-10+ years. FDA is legit only in USA, keep that in mind.

  • Shooter

    Again with the ignorant, juvenille, annoying taunts… Rob Buderi wrote the article, he doesn’t moderate the comments underneath.

  • Shooter

    Rick, in one sentence you contradicted yourself twice.

    You just said you wanted your hair now (in your 20s and 30s) and then blamed me for being an “I want it now” optimist.

    You have no clue how many times your argument has been heard. Visit ONE forum ONE time and you’ll see that you aren’t the only one who feels that way. In fact, there is a market so big that there is one surgeon solely dedicated to capitalizing on the instant gratification mentality you (and countless others) possess. Antonio Armani.

    His results are so good in the short term that if you really don’t care about your 40s and 50s… you can go to him RIGHT now and cure your baldness.

  • Rick

    # Shooter
    6/27/09 12:19 pm

    Rick, in one sentence you contradicted yourself twice.

    You just said you wanted your hair now (in your 20s and 30s) and then blamed me for being an “I want it now” optimist.

    You have no clue how many times your argument has been heard. Visit ONE forum ONE time and you’ll see that you aren’t the only one who feels that way. In fact, there is a market so big that there is one surgeon solely dedicated to capitalizing on the instant gratification mentality you (and countless others) possess. Antonio Armani.

    His results are so good in the short term that if you really don’t care about your 40s and 50s… you can go to him RIGHT now and cure your baldness.
    —————————————
    Oh, I know about him. He’s the liar with the made up name, ethnicity, and stem cell research. When I said I don’t care if I’m bald at 50, that doesnt mean I want a transplanted hairline and nothing around it. In addition to that, having a hair transplant requires that you poison your body with Propecia, which is something most sane people are not willing to do.
    I do want a treatment now. Very much. But I’m not ignorant/immature/childish enough to believe that just because I want it, it’s coming. That is the impression I get on these boards.
    “Well there’s no real reason to think anything is coming in less than 10 years, but I really wish it was, so it must be”. Thats you and 90% of the people on this board.

  • washington

    In addition to that, having a hair transplant requires that you poison your body with Propecia, which is something most sane people are not willing to do.
    (who said this?)…lol

  • Artista

    I see that Rick achieved exactly what he wanted to achieve here. Ok guys, please recognize what is happening here. ‘Misery DOES enjoy company’ you know. Shooter ,your a good man ,you were right on top of it and i commend you. Even when you had pertinent answers Rick would oppose it all,,geeez. There will always be a segment of ppl here that feel compelled to instigate something in others. They will be the ones most quiet once there is a treatment available. Of course there are some ppl that will never be satisfied no matter what. Right Rick? your a smart guy you should know.

  • Rick

    # washington
    6/27/09 1:47 pm

    In addition to that, having a hair transplant requires that you poison your body with Propecia, which is something most sane people are not willing to do.
    (who said this?)…lol
    —————————–
    Who said what, that propecia is poison? I don’t know about you, but if a drug’s side effects potentially include boobs, and its long term effect on the liver is not known, I’m not taking it.
    You must take Propecia if you have a transplant because a transplant is not a preventative measure. It in no way protects you from future hair loss. So unless you want an island of transplanted hair on an otherwise bald head, you need to take propecia, or wait for a transplant until your hair loss stops.
    There is a reason that the one or two ethical hair transplant surgeons will not to transplants on young men: They will continue to lose hair.

  • Rick

    # Artista
    6/27/09 1:50 pm

    I see that Rick achieved exactly what he wanted to achieve here. Ok guys, please recognize what is happening here. ‘Misery DOES enjoy company’ you know. Shooter ,your a good man ,you were right on top of it and i commend you. Even when you had pertinent answers Rick would oppose it all,,geeez. There will always be a segment of ppl here that feel compelled to instigate something in others. They will be the ones most quiet once there is a treatment available. Of course there are some ppl that will never be satisfied no matter what. Right Rick? your a smart guy you should know.

    —————————————–
    I will be satisfied with a treatment that is not 1)Dangerous (propecia) 2)A twice daily pain in the ass (Rogaine) or 3)Completely ineffective (everything else).

  • Artista

    “I will be satisfied with a treatment that is not 1)Dangerous (propecia) 2)A twice daily pain in the ass (Rogaine) or 3)Completely ineffective (everything else)”
    4)AND make everyone else miserable with me

    sorry i felt compelled

  • Rick

    # Artista
    6/27/09 3:40 pm

    “I will be satisfied with a treatment that is not 1)Dangerous (propecia) 2)A twice daily pain in the ass (Rogaine) or 3)Completely ineffective (everything else)”
    4)AND make everyone else miserable with me

    sorry i felt compelled
    ———————-
    I have no desire for other people to be miserable, but sometimes I think you guys do. Think about, some balding 17 year old comes here and drinks the “follica will be on the market in 2 weeks” Kool-Aid, only to be disappointed when he seeks information from a site that is not 1) associated with the company and 2) full of delusional people.
    Go to HLT, Hairsite, or any of the other message boards and try to spout your “2 years until Follica treatment” nonsense. You will be laughed at. Maybe thats why you’re here?
    I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that people actually believe Follica is close to market. The scientist that discovered the treatment initially said 5 years ago that it was 5 years to market, and now they say the same thing, 5 years later. That should tell you something. They’re not close.

  • Shooter

    Alright Rick, I’m done fighting with you, but I will continue to refute any faulty information you continue to spread.

    The 2004 “media buzz” with Cotsarelis was NOT, I repeat, was NOT regarding Follica’s technique. Same guy, different discovery (Edison did more than just invent the lightbulb). The 2004 “treatment” was one that was similar to what Aderans is working on: multiplying dermal and epithelial stem cells, and combining them in a lab to elicit hair growth. After these over-hyped articles were published, Cotsarelis did not form a company around his findings, he just continued to aid Aderans on their advisory board.

    The wounding discovery was only made public in May of 2007. This treatment has to do with activating stem cells through wounding, and convincing them to make hair. After these findings, Cotsarelis patented the idea and formed a company around them.
    He is not a hypocrite. He was talking about two completely different techniques. Once again, that doesn’t mean any of these techniques will work, but it does not mean they have “nothing.”

    And yes, hairsite is an awesome place. There is no misinformation, there is no bickering. The leading scholars from around the world post there. Like rev said, and I agree, go to hairsite and enjoy yourself. You will fit right in.

  • D

    you people need to go outside.

  • A

    Here we go again with the propecia hate, have fun letting fear guide you into a stupid decision. Trial the drug for 3 months if you see side effects stop right away, stop being a placebo sufferer. Show me the hard evidence that more then 2% of people experience side effects and i dont mean a contrived research paper i mean actual hard data. Just remember your fear of something will cost you in the long run all it requires is a trial period YOU WILL NOT SAVE YOUR HAIR ANY OTHER WAY THEN PROPECIA. Deal with it.

  • Artista

    Right on Shooter.
    Its always interesting when some people would try to turn the tables in midstream. It never worked on me. The only people here that seem to be miserable are the ones who show pessimism and lash out at others. The ones who call names. The ones who would want to dispel any positive notion of a good future. The ones who decide upon themselves that NOTHING will work ,ever, or if something good comes does around it wont be within our lifetimes. NO one said Follica or anyone was coming up with a treatment in 2 weeks.This site is for those that want good clean educated understanding in this field of research. Since when did hopefulness become a sin?

  • 4th

    Hi Artista, an other dedicated, if you want you can relocate to a forum that is moderated and you can block the forum abusers. This can be arranged if you want.
    Just say the word.

  • Artista

    hey 4th thx for the invite Im interested but there is still a lot of good ppl here.

  • Artista

    The idea of being involved in a blog site exactly like THIS with an active moderator is very appealing to me. What do you think Shooter, Metsie, Washington, R ,etc etc etc

  • washington

    I think that to be arguing if we will have a treatment is idiotiçe. logical that we will have, the problem is when…great companies and doctors work for a treatment, nobody is wild the sufficient one to announce in TV, radio, Internet, studies of a future treatment without having the minimum of knowledge. companies, doctors, scientists involved with follica, aderans, histogen, intercytex, all have some notion of what they study, and of when they teram something really that he works, then what we must make in them is to wait, wait, wait, wait, wait……..

  • Stranger

    Hi All,
    My Apology if my statement fulled the fire..
    I was being optimistic and was seeking opinion that , by any chance cure will be in place by 2009..
    Can we approach the respective Experts ( Follica , Thomas Whitefiled ) and ask them atleast to see our concerns/cries – such that they might atleast give us a tentative dates.. Hence , people won’t tell in this forum that the cure is in Horizon..
    From my side , I’m not even able to reach to any of the experts – but if anybody can – We will put an end to the bad remarks happening on this Forum..

    Your take folks.. Hope , people hear our pleas..

  • Maverick

    Come on men, heads up. We know the facts, treatment is coming relatively soon, Cotsarelis also wants to make millions while he is still young. If you become rich at the age of 60+, no matter how much money and girls you have your “little Johnny” will still not work. Greetings. Some more mandolin…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5J-I3g2DSg

  • R

    Propecia Side Effects

    The Physician’s Desk Reference (PDR) states that the side effects of finasteride,(Proscar/Propecia) occur in less than 2% of the users. Physicians who specialize in the treatment of hair loss typically tell a different story-that the reported side effects from their patients are more in the 30-40% range.

    Many who do report side effects, especially in the area of sexual functioning, are often dismissed as yielding to the power of suggestion and essentially creating “placebo” side effects. Although there clearly is a placebo phenomena in regards to both side effects and benefits, there is ample reason to conclude that the incidence of finasteride side effects goes well beyond the 2% reported (by the drug company that makes finasteride) in the PDR.

    The “don’t confuse us with the facts” mainstream medical community stands by the “less than 2% incidence” reported in the PDR. Proscar has been on the market for 16 years, Propecia has been on the market for 10 years.

    Gynecomastia, (breast enlargement in men) almost inconspicuously appeared on the side effect lists a few years ago. We have been helping men resolve this emotionally and cosmetically taxing side effect long before it appeared in the PDR, and based on the voluminous feedback we’ve gotten, we’ve concluded that this a not too uncommon occurrence.

    There are now studies conclusively linking finasteride to depression and possibly cognitive deficits. For a more detailed look into that, click here:

    Propecia, Depression, and Cognitive Dysfunction

    If you are using, or have previously used, or are considering Propecia or Proscar (finasteride) an online support community, with an active forum exists that exclusively deals with finasteride side effects. It is highly recommended. Here’s the link:

  • Artista

    Just got back from the Taste of Chicago. Had a great time with the kids ,it was hot outside etc etc etc. How is all

  • Dave

    Not to be confused with (dave)”lower case d”
    Anyway, Follica is hiring again. Job posting is on monster.com

  • 4th

    “The idea of being involved in a blog site exactly like THIS with an active moderator is very appealing to me. What do you think Shooter, Metsie, Washington, R ,etc etc etc”

    staygifted.com

    Artista and friends, let me know if something like this works..it can be moderated and sends email reply for tracking as someone responds to your blog..similar to this site, but with moderation…and consideration…

  • A

    People should be allowed to share views though even if pessimistic. And i dont count articles taken from Hairloss-research as a controlled study Physicians who specialize in the treatment of hair loss typically tell a different story-that the reported side effects from their patients are more in the 30-40% range.

    ^^ Where is the proof of that.

  • Artista

    There is a huge difference between pessimism and juvenile rudeness. When its obvious that someone is saying something to just simply insult(especially on a good informative blog site like this) a good moderator would come in handy.

  • Metsie

    Exactly Artista and its easy to tell the difference. Pessimism is a good thing, it makes you think twice. But the levels it has gone to is unbelieveable. If a moderator is necessary to keep good fact contributing people here then I’m all for it.
    Artista, in regards to the conference in july not sure what good will come of it. This seems to be a science / research where silence is prevelant. Get these people together in a room and you probally will hear crickets chirp. Any thoughts?

  • R

    People…I trully don’t care who believes my posts etc…All those individuals who decide to take propecia and get HT’s after they were warned as well as with any other issue can not and should not blame anyone but themselves. I as well as others have shown evidence and pointed others to the correct links to information and shared many stories. However, some choose to accept they are the only knowledgeable practioners on this site. Please understand that doctors don’t care about you as they do the money. Hence your hospital stay is shorter today than in the 70’s.

    I welcome crticism if it is backed by science and true knowledge. However, my personal experience has shown that most just are lonely and not that intelligent to see that people are trying to offer true and informed knowledge based on experience and exhausted research.

    The internet is providing each of you a medium to understand and gather data in hopes to challenge and report all data presented. For the most part hairloss research is a failure and a viable cure far fetched. But we move on and hope for a better outcome. This is all we have is hope becaue our voices are nothing if the company will not make money. This is all about money and nothing more. Never anything more than making a dollar.

    Please understand that if scientist can lie and make money from subpar products, THEY WILL! regardless of your cries or worries. People in this world don’t give a damn about you and most are glad you are losing your hair because your a in a position of vulnerability and sorrow and people like being BETTER THAN YOU! Period!!!

    How many of you would love to see your friends win the lottery. NONE!!!!! You want to win to better!!!!

    I say this because I want each and everyone of you to understand that nobody cares and everyone wants to be better than you. Your hairloss is there pride and you all know it! Scientist and business have on thing in mind. MONEY, MONEY, MONEY! and never the consumer unless they will make MONEY!!!!

    You want a cure for hairloss….STOP BUYING HT’s SNAKE OILS, PROPECIA etc….. and make them earn that MONEY buy creating and real cure.

    Again, if you want to take propecia and get HT’s go ahead. You have all been warned and you can never state your never knew. My guess for a real hairloss treatment is on the horizon but the path is so VULNERABLE that the slightest setback will kill all hopes and progress. We see it today with companies that have a great start and fail after one setback.

    LIVE< LIVE< LIVE< and stop worrying abiut what is coming next. It will or won’t for three reasons MONEY, MONEY, MONEY! your cries are worthless believe me, so stop buying inferior products and treatments and make them create a real solution based thier need to make money.

    Again, your friends and everyone around are glad you are bald and broke etc…. because it makes them feel superior. So start being realistic and start looking after number one (you) and find how silly you are worrying about hairloss and the many opportunities lost praying for a cure with scientist who don’t care unless they can make money.

    Pessimissm is a defense mechanism in hopes to be wrong. Nobody wants any company to fail but few of us actually share real knowledge in hopes to prevent chemical side effects. Please don’t take propecia and if you want to believe doctors…Then whay are they one of the most leading causes of death and why is tobacco still legal etc,,,? They want you to die and suffer to prevent overcrowding and fuel money to doctors, lobbyist etc… Stop worrying and care about yourself.

    You want a cure…realistically never if the money is not shown to benefit the company. Plus will government allow thosuands of snake oil companies and millions of job to be lost due to cure. Hell NO!!!!!!! so a cure is probably never…a new solution that requires multiple treatments and continued influx of money…YES!!!

    As for Intercytex… the government is offering more money to sure soldiers and pursue other research and they will…why….money.

    So again…this forum offers hope and maybe a wake up call to your own needs and expectations. However…you need to be realistic and see that money..not your voice or cares will fuel research or a cure. Don’t we still rely on joggers and marathon runners to cure breast cancer? Hairloss is far less concering so LIVE and stop arguing. Present facts and researched data and allow those member who choose to disregard your comments to suffer there fate.

    Yes Propecia does not affect everyone the same as does no other chemical or drug..buyer beware and take note of the warnings presented and the facts most MONEY invested into drugs is not research but Marketing. Why…greater chance to make money only!!! They don’t care about your health..trully don’t care. I know Pharmacist that will take prescription drugs..!!!!! Listen and learn for I write and now you have all been told and blame yourself for any side effect and shortcoming in any procedure.

  • Rick

    Follica, Inc is adding two Research Associates to work in our Philadelphia location.​ The successful candidate must be able to organize and plan to efficiently manage and execute assigned studies involving animals, cell culture, and protein analysis.​

    Duties include independent planning, management, and execution of assigned projects involving animals and human tissue.​ These include drug dosing, surgical procedures, maintenance of a mouse colony, processing of mouse and human tissues, and confocal microscopy.​ Additional duties include cryostat sectioning of mouse and human skin, biochemical assays, and immunohistochemistry.​ Maintaining accurate laboratory records and notebooks is required.​ Good teamwork, oral/​written skills, problem solving and analytical skills are essential.​ A strong emphasis will be placed on the timely delivery of results on multiple, independently managed projects.​

    Must be able to work weekends as necessary.​

    Follica: Curing hair loss in mice since 2004.

  • Artista

    Hi Metsie,
    Well the way that i look at the July conf is this. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst. In re to the ‘best’ really,i do not expect to hear of anything astounding. Would hope that they (collectively or not) may have found the right ave(s) to take on the path to a safe treatment in hair regeneration. A minor breakthrough of sorts.
    In re to the ‘worst’~DEADENDS.
    In my limited opinion there can never be a CURE for MPB without altering our very DNA and that is absurd. A great treatment is on the horizon though(my opinion again sorry to some of you for the optimism). I agree that money/politics probably plays a big part in this.It usually does with everything else in life doesnt it?
    MPB isnt threatening so it has taken the backseat in medical research. Theoretically ,at the end of the 20th century, if MPB became a life threatening epidemic there is NO doubt in my mind that there would have been a viable TREATMENT discovered by now.
    As it stands for me, i hope to have minor HT/FUESs in the nearer future.
    I dont need to have my 20 year old hairline(although it was beautiful,,lol)
    Sorry for going on and on guys. Metsie ,who knows we may be VERY surprised. Sorry again to those here that discourage silly optimism.

  • Artista

    I meant to also add, to those that are truly being destroyed by their balding~ not to lose hope.Especially you younger guys.(the youth will benefit from the research moreso than us older guys anyway) WE KNOW its profoundly terrible. Hang in there. We are on this earth for such a relatively short time. As it has been said by others here,, LIVE LIFE. Adapt in whatever way that is comfortable for you. This balding thing has been hindering me too ,,i hate it. I hate wearing caps, being uncomfortable to have pics taken etc etc. We are all in this together,,do not give up!

  • Maverick

    Why would altering our DNA be absurd? Do you think this is absurd? I hear that this will be available next year.

    http://www.bionetonline.org/English/Content/db_cont1.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designer_baby

  • Artista

    Maverick,
    in re to DNA altering, ‘Designer babies’ and recovering one’s hair lost because of MPB are two entirely different topics with individual moral ramifications altogether.

  • Maverick

    MPB is a genetic problem and “designer babies” are a perfect example of making humans with fixed genetics. Or at least starting that era.

    Maybe you can´t grow your old hair back, but maybe you can fix your genes so you will not transfer your bald genes to your children. And for the ones that have already lost their hair, a new treatment(HM or whatever) should do the job.

  • Shooter

    Oh. My. God. A research company is hiring research assistants?! THEY MUST BE FAILING AT EVERYTHING!!!

    Rick, where do you come up with this stuff?

    If anything, hiring people is good. You can’t hire people if you don’t have an income to provide them a salary. Right now Follica has a bunch of executives and a bunch of lower-level positions and NO REVENUES! Maybe they are expecting to have a product eventually? I mean, they can’t live off of venture capital forever.

    Or maybe they will just continue to hire people to biopsy mice until they go bankrupt. Just for fun. I’m sure that’s exactly the plan for all of those Ivy-League brains. Their credentials prove that they don’t have any clue how to run a business.

    Also, Follica does more than just create hair loss treatments. They are a legitimate company that does ongoing research. Anything with regards to the skin is fair game. I have no idea why you are getting so negative because they need lower-level employees to work with mice. I’m personally ecstatic that they now have independent lab space and independent employees and have moved off of university funding and student assistants.

    Let’s put it this way. You and I have NO IDEA what Follica is up to. We can agree on that. BUT if the company was failing at everything and was 10 years from any kind of return on investment, THEY WOULDN’T HIRE MORE PEOPLE!

  • Shooter
  • Shooter

    oops, double post

  • Maverick

    I think that human genetic engineering is the future of medicine, stem cells etc. USA, EU and the whole West have very strict and forbidden laws against that research(although I personally think that that research is going on since WW2). Middle east is doing genetic engineering research with no restrictions whatsoever and I believe Russia, China, Japan, Korea, India etc. are doing it too. So I think that we have to realize that USA is not the only country in the world that is in hair business or any other kind.

  • Artista

    Shooter ,,very funny and very true! Couldnt have been said any better. Try not to buy into his game too much. He visits here for a reason.

  • Artista

    Mav’ as far as hair restoration is concerned for TODAY,for US, genetic manipulation or engineering is not a part of the equation.

  • Rick

    # Shooter
    6/29/09 12:27 pm

    Oh. My. God. A research company is hiring research assistants?! THEY MUST BE FAILING AT EVERYTHING!!!

    Rick, where do you come up with this stuff?

    If anything, hiring people is good. You can’t hire people if you don’t have an income to provide them a salary. Right now Follica has a bunch of executives and a bunch of lower-level positions and NO REVENUES! Maybe they are expecting to have a product eventually? I mean, they can’t live off of venture capital forever.

    Or maybe they will just continue to hire people to biopsy mice until they go bankrupt. Just for fun. I’m sure that’s exactly the plan for all of those Ivy-League brains. Their credentials prove that they don’t have any clue how to run a business.

    Also, Follica does more than just create hair loss treatments. They are a legitimate company that does ongoing research. Anything with regards to the skin is fair game. I have no idea why you are getting so negative because they need lower-level employees to work with mice. I’m personally ecstatic that they now have independent lab space and independent employees and have moved off of university funding and student assistants.

    Let’s put it this way. You and I have NO IDEA what Follica is up to. We can agree on that. BUT if the company was failing at everything and was 10 years from any kind of return on investment, THEY WOULDN’T HIRE MORE PEOPLE!
    ——————————————–
    They’re still testing on mice, which means they don’t have the protocol finalized. It also means that any treatment for humans is at least 10 years away.

  • Artista

    Hey Shooter,,see what i mean? lol,,your spinning your wheels. The fact that he is spending his time HERE speaks volumes.If one is to believe that there isnt going to be any type of treatment for MPB in TEN YEARS than WHY would one waste time HERE??? LOL

  • Metsie

    Ricky,
    That job would be perfect for you. You can talk to the mice and vent out your frustrations on them. When you see Dr.C you cann annoy him directly. Your not going to come out with anything for another 10 years. Nah Nah Nah Nah Nah Nah

  • JoJo

    LOL … some people talk about 10 years as if it were a lot of time, and it may be a lot of time for us, but not for science. Think about this, ten years ago … yes, 1999, we had some non curable cancers ? yes, we had, and the situation is the same today, and in 10 years every kind of cancer won’t be curable, unfortunately. Hair loss will be solved one day but not in 5 years and I would say not in 10 years either, I can’t see the smoke and I can’t see the fire, I can only see desesperated people trying to believe anything, like 10 yeras ago. And don’t blame me for telling the evidence. Enjoy your life as much as possible, take what we have today ( propecia, maybe minoxidil, maybe nizoral ) after consulting the doctor … and have a HT if you can/like, these are the times we are living.

  • Shooter

    JoJo, I get where you are coming from. Research does take a lot more time than most of us are willing to give. But here’s the thing, none of the companies we are cheering for are doing research. They are in human trials, the final stages before marketing. That means the science is over, the development is over, the “10 years” is over, and it is being tried in humans as we speak. Procedures in Phase 2 DO NOT take 10 years to market. They just don’t. I don’t know what else to say. They might fail, sure, but if they don’t fail, they are a lot closer than 10 (or even 5) years.

    If you can’t see the “smoke” of THREE companies in human testing… I have no idea what it would take.

    Hell, I was doing some research about clinical trials the other day to dispel a lot of the rumors I had been hearing. As it turns out “research studies”, “clinical research”, and “human proof of concept studies” can all be used interchangeably for Phase 1 and Phase 2 clinical trials. Once these are done, Phase 3 takes about another year in most cases. Most of us, because we are so concerned, would be perfect candidates for Phase 3 and can have access to these treatments before they ever hit the market.

    Rick, the mice that Follica are using could be for any one of their programs. They are not necessarily being used to test their hair loss regimen. Follica isn’t closing their doors if they come out with a hair product, they are staying open and continually making new treatments for a variety of diseases. These diseases require research on mice. Hell, for all we know, the mice are just there for Cotsarelis and Zohar to eat with their coffee at board meetings.

    I don’t know how this is misconstrued as optimism. I am well aware, and have said repeatedly, that companies in Phase 2 often fail. But companies in Phase 2 also never take 10 years to market. This is just factual, it’s not “hopeful.”

  • Artista

    Shooter once again you put it into the proper perspectives. Amen brother

  • Andrew

    Will Follica work on the temples? I’ll be trying it out next week when my liposomal Genistein (EGFR inhibitor) cream arrives.

  • Stranger

    Hi All,

    Will there be any chance to reach out to the respective companies representatives to get the tentative tenure , such that we won’t go fighting with Pessimism / Optimism..

    I do agree , as JOJO said – everybody works for MONEY.. But not all the people are like that – they will also be truthful at times folks..

    Unless , we don’t get a reply with out a try – we cannot blame them right..

  • Squadoosh

    Or maybe they will just continue to hire people to biopsy mice until they go bankrupt. Just for fun. I’m sure that’s exactly the plan for all of those Ivy-League brains.


    I think I’ve never ever laughed so hard about a comment as I did about this one. Epic job Shooter :D

  • Artista

    Andrew, do some research on Follica. There isn’t anything on the market at this time. Clinical trials are ongoing.
    Squadoosh, Shooter has impressively made some great observations and comments as of recently.

  • Rick

    # JoJo
    6/29/09 5:15 pm

    LOL … some people talk about 10 years as if it were a lot of time, and it may be a lot of time for us, but not for science. Think about this, ten years ago … yes, 1999, we had some non curable cancers ? yes, we had, and the situation is the same today, and in 10 years every kind of cancer won’t be curable, unfortunately. Hair loss will be solved one day but not in 5 years and I would say not in 10 years either, I can’t see the smoke and I can’t see the fire, I can only see desesperated people trying to believe anything, like 10 yeras ago. And don’t blame me for telling the evidence. Enjoy your life as much as possible, take what we have today ( propecia, maybe minoxidil, maybe nizoral ) after consulting the doctor … and have a HT if you can/like, these are the times we are living.
    ———————————–
    Finally, someone who sees my side of things…

    —————————————
    But here’s the thing, none of the companies we are cheering for are doing research. They are in human trials, the final stages before marketing. That means the science is over, the development is over, the “10 years” is over, and it is being tried in humans as we speak. Procedures in Phase 2 DO NOT take 10 years to market.
    ———————————–
    This is the most insanely optimistic reading of the current situation. There is no basis for this mindset, other than to set yourself up for disappointment.
    With Follica, the science is not over. They would not be testing in mice if they had a procedure they were sure about.
    With ICX, the science is certainly not over. Their procedure, as currently constituted DOES NOT WORK.
    The only company that seems to be in legit testing is Aderans.
    Most drugs in phase 2 do not take 10 years to market because most phase 2 drugs never get to market.
    “Only 5 in 5,000 drugs that enter preclinical testing progress to human testing. One of these 5 drugs that are tested in people is approved.”
    Follica may succeed. I’m not arguing that Follica will never be on the market. But its not coming anytime soon.

  • Artista

    I’m reminded of a person of whom i once worked with. He was well known for his negativity in our circle.
    Someone had once asked him how he had found Hawaii. His response was, “Hawaii is absolutely HEAVEN on earth! But of course, you can still get run over by a bus there too.”
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    There will always be people out there wanting to rain on your parade(for various reasons). Sometimes in guise of being ‘helpful’ or even ‘knowledgeable’. There are common reasons why the sincere ones come to this site. To be updated and educated without being mislead by ‘snake oil salesmen’. For some it seems hope has become a 4-lettered word here. As i have said before hope for the best prepare for the worst. Personally speaking, If i believed that there wouldn’t be something substantial available until the year 2019,i wouldn’t be HERE wasting my time.

  • Maverick

    Histogen is performing human clinical testings? are they? They are all very silent, full of misteries. Aderans started phase II trials in april so what do you think how long we will have to wait until their report? One year? april 2010?

  • Metsie

    Misery loves company and sometimes even begs for company. I guess Rickopottamus wants everybody down to his level of misery. I have to admit his persistent devotion to the negative opinion is almost comic relief here. Rick if your not in politics in some sort of way,you missed your calling. Fight the good fight.

  • Artista

    Which cartoon character was it that always said “itll NEVER work” oh yes,,EEYORE.

  • Rick

    I’m accused of negativity for simply being logical.

  • Metsie

    Oh Rickeeyore, your problems go well beyond your hairline. Your conversion to the dark side is complete.

  • Squadoosh

    Jojo, you can’t say “because the last 10 years brought nothing” (which is untrue), “the next 10 won’t do either”.

    Science is evolving exponentially, just look at the development of computers.

    Great things to come in the next 10 years if you ask me, and I’m not talking about hairloss only.

  • Shooter

    Thank you very much Artista and Squadoosh. Lol at the Eeyore thing. Eeyore certainly is a drag, but he has a righteous mane.

  • A

    Only an idiot would claim no scientific breakthroughs have been seen in the last 10 years, Im pretty sure there are more cures for cancer, face transplants are a reality and many more medical wonders are unfolding before our eyes. Clearly ICX didnt fail it is growing hair and looking for a phase III partner. Histogen has completed its phase I and we will see results soon so get over.

  • Stranger

    Hi All,
    Anybody heard about ” Tocomin SupraBio™ ” Hair
    study.. http://www.carotech.net..

    They promise hair gowth also.. Anybody have tried.. ? If so can you share the experience..

  • Squadoosh
  • Maverick

    Why bad news? they still got the knowledge, maybe someone else buys them, India, China etc. Company may break down but the knowledge still stands, scientists will continue their work elsewhere. Anyway Aderans is doing basically the same thing as they were, I believe even better one.

  • Rick

    Clearly, a realistic voice is not welcome here. I will no longer post here.

  • Maverick

    Rick we will have your way of thinking if they all fail.

  • R

    Look Everyone no one has to leave. We (I mean all of us don’t have clue of what is coming or the success rate of any of the products). We need to wait and wait for at least two-years to see any viable updates on the current tests being conducted. Please understand that any viewpoint is just an opinion. We (none of us) has any inside knowledge or can predict the future. RICK may be correct and we need to just face the facts that all of this could be a failure. Or, Rick could be wrong! Either way…fighting and looking for answers everyday is costly to your psyche and opportunity to experience life. Everyone should leave the forum for 1 year and start living. If anything new posts that is real..we will all hear about it in due time. Rick is playing it safe and is correct. 99% of the attempts are failures so we must be prepared to enjoy hairloss. However…the times, approach and effort is different then it was last 10 years so this promising. My point is that looking everyday is worthless and it will happen if the cards are stacked properly. The odds NO it won’t work…but…we hope and pray. We need to forget about looking everyday. If you want…look every three months. You will see that progress and news is slow.

    Don’t get angry…just enjoy life and believe me…hair loss trully doesn’t matter to 98% of the women….and PLEASE DON’T GET HT’s…..just cut your hair short and get a happy and strong personality and YOU WILL THANK ME GUARANTEED! THIS WAITING IS USELESS AND CARELESS.

  • Shooter

    R, what are you talking about? 2 years for any updates? What’s up with that? Two years ago, nobody even knew what Follica was.

    People tend to take your words to heart, but now you are just picking up arbitrary timelines like everyone else. The difference is they used to be optimistic, and now they are pessimistic.

    I’m sorry but your last post has me completely befuddled. It has no facts supporting it.

    Btw, the first line of your post says no one has to leave… and then you told everyone not to come back for a year. The Mercola thing seems to have damaged your credibility.

  • Rick

    Ok, sorry, I promised not post on here again, but I saw this:
    “hair loss trully doesn’t matter to 98% of the women”
    Haha. Thats a good one.
    Try this on for size:
    “98% of guys will date fat girls”.
    Sounds equally realistic.

  • KKwilliams

    U guys need to take a serious step back.

    Heres the reality..no pessimism or optimism just the reality!!

    1) Science obviously is advancing and if there is a cure to be found every year brings it closer.

    2) breakthroughs/testing take time so even if I found the cure tonight in my mini bake oven I couldnt release it in the u.s.a. at least for a few years!!!

    3) Like R mentioned earlier…we all really know nothing. I just hope that the attempts follica aderans and intercytex are making get us a cure or help another player down the line get us a cure so I can enjoy my life

    10 years is not a long time but I pray that a cure is available within that timeline. that being said anyone deluding themselves into this just another year til a cure is only hurting themselves. I have no agenda, not selling hair pills wigs or ht;s. Im just a guy who is smart enough to realize 2 years will NOT bring a cure.

    5 years imo is long enough for a new idea to be born and brought to market somewhere in the world to save us and 10 years allows time for a few let downs like weve all seen but for real headway to be made.

    thats my piece
    nite :)

  • Artista

    To be optimistic and hopeful is not synonymous with being blind or foolish. This site is here and is actually evolving to keep us all educated and updated in this relatively new field of hair regeneration research. Rick you need not go away. You have every right to express yourself. I expect though that your ‘realistic’ views are due to disappointments you may have had as the rest of us in the hair growth industry/products/HTs in these past several years. Shooter you must keep in mind that R is proponent for the natural approach.(not a bad thing) Im not sure where he is coming from with those timetables but he is correct in that we must
    live life regardless. (i think that is what he’s trying to say anyway) KK’ there will not be a CURE for MPB but there will be a significant TREATMENT. There is a big difference between the two. Rick,
    “Try this on for size:“98% of guys will date fat girls” very funny ,true AND a realistic reply.

  • Metsie

    Pessimism and doubt are a useful tools.Cronic pessimism, I dont get. Either someone is trying to bring us down to their level of misery or they ae trying to protect us from being extremely dissapointed. Just remember we are grown men here and can handle the truth. I personally wont jump off a building or go on a three month drinking binge if it fails.
    This is new technology, new science new approach to a horrendous superficial condition and its ok to get excited about it but its always in the back of my head that is could fail.
    What I’m tring to say is if you can respect our optimism we can respect your pessimism.

  • Stranger

    Hi Folks,

    Why are we still fighting about the Optimism and pessimism..

    We are not doing any research , we are the patients for whom the research is going to help.. Rick, KK you can be right with the timelimes or wrong.. But why don’t we hope for the best which is going to help everybody..

    There are breakthroughs happening , and nobody is concerned talking about it.. Anybody heard of Tocomin SupraBio™ which is showing >25% growth on an average within 8 months.. ( More than 50% ppl showed >50% growth ).. http://www.carotech.net

    We need to do a research on them , and lets try if it is viable..

    Also , on the other hand lets try contacting the respective folks ( they will consider us ) from Follica , Androgen , Histogen , Thomas Whitefiled etc., Anybody is doing that – I’m doing but no reply yet.. If anyof you stay nearby to their office you can drop by and enquire as we are genuine..

    Bye guys.. Please get into reality and do some rather than we blaming ourselves..

  • Stranger

    Hi,

    My previous post got removed.. I just wanted to know , is there something unwanted I posted..

    Please let me know.. I was sharing a genuine feeling..

  • KKwilliams

    Artista,

    i dont see the need for u to tell me there would be no cure just a treatment. This is how it starts. we all argue over minor things. If follica is able to regenerate new hair that looks completely natural and is of very high density thats a cure to me!

    I dont need to argue over word usage just got annoyed we back to arguing over such trivial details after i posted.

    all I know in my eyes is that I pray a “cure: is available within 10 years!!! Obviously I want sooner but I can still make a life for myself and be happy if in 10 years the have this/me fixed :)

    thats all im saying..back not to posting for a while. hang in there everyone :)

  • Artista

    KK’
    I follow a set of credos in life. One of which is to be articulate with your words.
    A very important principle to live by because the words that we use can be very powerful. They can also be misleading, knowingly or not knowingly. Snakeoil salesmen and schemers have used the magic word ‘cure’ for very good greedy reasons,and still do. My comment was not meant to offend or to annoy you and if it did i do apologize KK. Im not here to play games or to arouse hostilities in anyone. I am here to be updated on the latest news in hair regeneration and HTs and yes i am HOPEFUL with eyes wide open. The comradeship here goes a long way for me as well.Rather theraputic. IM glad to have ‘met’ good people at Xconomy in sharing thoughts and info on this topic.
    We all are in this together feeling the same pains,embarresments,angst,depression,anger,
    disappointments etc etc. Good things are instore for us though. A matter of time.

  • KKwilliams

    Artista,
    Fair enough :) and good sentiments.

    My only point is that it doesn’t matter to me at ALL, if getting my hair fixed to the point where its undetectable and I can be happy is by way of cure or a treatment method..ie follica, aderans or “x” company.

    They could call the treatment/cure ugly face stupid dumb :) and as long as it gets me my life back is all I care about.

  • Artista

    “…as long as it gets me my life back..”
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Gosh KK i empathize with you. ALL of us here do. Lets hope for the best.

  • Rick

    The difference between a cure and a treatment is that a cure fixes the root of the problem (literally) and a treatment is an ongoing process.
    Some of the MPB stuff is sort of in the middle. Take Aderans, for instance. If Aderans actually figures it out, its a “treatment” that is basically a “cure”, because it would be a one time treatment that is guaranteed to stick around for life, or at least until “senile alopecia” kicks in.
    Follica sounds a lot more like a treatment. They have been unable to explain whether or not the hair would be DHT resistant. My unscientific guess is that it won’t be, because there is nothing to suggest it will. They are not taking DP cells from other parts of your head and introducing them to balding areas. They are simply creating new hair follicles that may probably will be subject to the effects of DHT. Follica claims that this may be the case, but the hair would stick around for one cycle, at least. That means repetitive treatment, and if its expensive (which if its administered by dermatologists it will be) it means it will be unavailable to most people.

  • Artista

    Great clarification and well said Rick,,thanks

  • KKwilliams

    I dont get why we are still dancing around with terminology here. Obviously a cure is superior to a treatment but that really isn’t the issue.

    if u can have the follica procedure done and have achieve 70% or above natural density that’s a “cure” “solution” “treatment”

    even if the hair is still damaged by dht the whole process of it being attacked, damaged, gradually being thinned out would be a long process and when it starts to become noticeable you just have another treatment.

    Meanwhile further efforts towards a cure would continue as well as longer lasting treatments/cures.

    call it what u will but since its obvious people will always feel the need to nit pick over terminology Ill just say I hope 10 years brings a solution to hair loss sufferers.

    p.s. not an attack on rick or artista.

    p.p.s Even with follicas method which could be performed quite quickly from what Ive read so far. even with the dermatologist and cost of the actual drug cocktail. I cant see a session costing that much.

    Money would be made through volume. and Id be willing to save up $10k every couple of years for a top up session(small price to pay)and I doubt a session would cost that.

    hts are costly because of large staff..overhead..skilled doctors(some) the equipment. advertising etc.

    if done at a regular dermatologists office there would be such lower costs involved it wouldn’t even be funny

  • commonsense

    if you ask me optimism and pessimism result in the same outcome in this forum (a very sorry state of affairs indeed)

    Both will not get you a cure any faster..

    Now I can understand optimisms commenting here….. but the pessimismd, I’m not to sure about?

    Maybe they hope to be proving wrong (and if you do, well done for educating yourself a little and having a open mind) or maybe you just like to cause unhappyness to a forum that generally has a good vibe (tut tut! shame on you! hairsite much love you) aahhh who Knows? har har! the mental pains of hairloss!! eeesshh!

    How about this…Instead of bickering about peoples opinions use this forum to state FACTS

    …..and let the individual come to there own conclusions.

  • A

    This forum is awesome lol

  • Stranger

    Hi Commonsense,

    You are correct.. Nobody is talking about the facts..

    Folks,
    We are all going through tough phase and lets fight it together..

    All I’m telling is that , we will try – try and then start arguing.. Like I said before , they are also human beings who can consider our pleas.. Lets not give away the hope..

    My request is , we will reach out to them by all means such that they will see us..

  • Maverick

    Well if we had a political party, I think we would be the most powerful party in the world, there are lots of bald people on high places.

  • Artista

    To those that this applies,
    HAPPY 4TH OF JULY~INDEPENDENCE DAY!!!
    sincerely Artista

  • Maverick

    Artista happy 4th of july. I watched “The Patriot” few days ago, those damn Brits… :)

  • b

    hey guys i’ve followed this forum for a long time and I realize this site is for new treatment talk but I was hoping you guys could point me in the right direction for a thinning frontal hairline.

    Is there anything like shampoos or scalp exercises or anything that has been effective for anyone that they could share?

  • OS

    there is nothing you can do

  • OS

    So .. what do you say now guys?! icx is dead and so is Histogen :D… i never said im pasmistic, only realistic, wake up, Follica is dieing aswell, best thing a bald gut can do is throw a rug on the head and be happy with it ot get an HT….. most important thing is to : GET REAL!
    yours, OS.

  • A

    No OS the best thing you can do is stop being a retard, ICX is not dead it is still in business. Histogen has shown absolutely no sign of being dead and follica is far from dead. Your not being realistic your being stupid. Show me sound evidence these companies and there technologies are dead. And to answer your question B yes there is plenty you can do. If you want to save your hair research online. If you are after proven methods you can start with Nizoral and Propecia this will halt hairloss in 80% of males. If you see real side effects you may want to stop but try the drug first. If you are still wanting to attempt regrowth of the area, you can try a course of minoxidil there are many various forms of this avaiable on the market and dont listen to complete idiots who dont know what they are talking about.

    Cheers.

  • D

    I stopped posting as much because arguing about over the internet about something we have no control over is akin to slamming your head repeatedly against a wall. Just wait for the new treatments to become commercially available. What are you gaining from proving your point to a complete stranger over the internet?
    In the meantime, feel free to take advantage of current hair loss treatments. Another reason why I haven’t been posting is because my hair has stopped thinning and a lot of it has reversed its miniaturization. I’ve actually noticed hairs with thicker roots and thinner tips (meaning that they’ve reveresed within the same cycle) I’ve been using nizoral 2% and t-gel shampoo and head & shoulders plus a moisturizing shampoo + conditioner (such as pantene pro-v) everyday since last december, and propecia + multivitamins every night for the past 3 years (the hairloss only started reversing once i started my current shampoo regimen) Now, girls tell me they wish they had hair like mine.
    I’m not trying to sell any of the brands I’m using, but if inflammation is the source of your hair loss (itching, burning, soreness), you may want to give anti-inflammatory shampoos/topicals a try.

  • Artista

    OS, im surprised at you. Someone who is sincere in asking for advice here and you would ‘throw him under a train’. Hey ‘b’, A and D are on the right track. D, how is it to use Nizoral and the shampoo? I think i may try it myself.

  • OS

    Work on acceptance,fin = male boobs and some other shit you dont want to mess with (like impotence) about the hair spray (rogain?) it might buy some time (if your not allergic to it) other then that there is nothing you can do….. i know first hand, if you dont belive me just google “propicia help” and see for yourself, i cant believe this SHIT POISON actually approved by the FDA.. only proves what the FDA really worth…
    Ill be honest, im frustrated with these false announcement these fucking companies come up with .. irresponsibly throwing shit statements into the air giving us false hopes.. FUCK FOLLICA and the rest, some one should really put an end to this shit. fucking companies, im actually happy they go bank rob!

  • Metsie

    I think somebody needs a hug. Seriously OS what are like 14? You need to breath into a bag and relax. If your getting that frustrated then just tune out and get a hobbie. These companies may fail and may not but I dont think too many are going bankrupt just yet.

  • Artista

    Hey OS you need not sell me on the risks involved in using such drug treatments. I made a personal decision for myself not to use those particular drugs on the market today for that reason. That is not to say it isnt good for everyone. Do you realize just how angry you have shown yourself to be? Anger , like any emotion can cloud judgement calls we all make in life. Hang in there dude you will probably be surprised in a good way regardless of how your feeling right now.

  • jordan

    i come on this forum to see updates not little boys bitching who cant handle their emitions! god knows what how your going to deal with more serious issues. any update from histogen? i know they are going to realease some new update pics, im not sure when though?

  • bill123

    :-/ wtf? this place used to actually be helpful and educational. looks like the hairsite users found this forum too.

    you people are crazy. just becasue you dnt get any news, you go insane. personally i expect something from thomas whitfield based on his reputation but if even if he comes up with bs, i wnt start bickering on these forums. just pointless

  • JS

    jordan and bill123 are spot on, i used to come here to see if there was anything new happening. Not to bitch and moan. There’s hundreds of posts without the slightest bit of information.

  • A

    Arista. Nizoral is a shampoo. So you need to use it 3 to 4 times a week, you leave nizoral on for 4 – 6 minutes and then wash out. Its really simple its got a very medicine smell about it. It doesnt cost much and you can choose between 1% or 2%. It is a mild androgen blocker and increases hair thickness and shaft diameter. Its what was used in the propecia trials and is said to be the base of a good arsenal against hair-loss. OS you can say what you want but until you TRY the drug for yourself you will never know what it will do FOR YOU. I have noticed that i dont suffer from Gyno (I just have breasts cause im fat LOL)but with that being said if i lost weight maybe i would still have breasts who knows, these are the chances we take in life. You are missing out by not trying. And im here to learn knowledge and hopefully see and end to something that caused me so much pain already.

    Cheers

  • Artista

    Hi A, thanks for the info and the advice. I have seen Niz’ on the shelf in the shampoo aisle plenty of times but had never really considered it. Ill give it a try though. Happy Fourth of July weekend to all.

  • B

    great thanks a lot guys I’ll give the shampoos a shot.

    Hey D, why t-gel shampoo? is that supposed to have the same sort of effects as nizoral for hairloss?

    And do you just mix t-gel with nizoral or do you use them seperately?

    thanks again

  • A

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Gel

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketoconazole

    A little bit more info for you guys. I apologise i made a mistake it was T-gel used in the trials of prop. Nizoral was shown to be effective as 2% minox which is not bad.

  • Johnny

    When is the big derm. convent?

  • A

    Big derm convention is coming up i think on the last week of july maybe the 27th

  • R

    This site is changing and the simple fact as always is that we are not in any position to state absolutely that a cure or viable treatment from any of the forementioned names are failures and/ or successes. We are just lay-consumers hoping for the best. We are not suffering from a serious medical disease and those that are still await a cure.

    Ina nut-shell we need to relax and again wait as any breakthrough worth its weight in gold will be known. Here is a little fact and test to see if a cure is out there. Does Ron Howard or any of the stars that have billions / millions of dollars and access to the best and brightest practioners have a full head of hair?

    Until we see these stars with a NATURAL full head of hair, all you can hope for is a treatment. Time of a cure is dependent on luck and great scientific breakthroughs. You all can whine and attack each other but we all know that none of us can speak of anything other than what other people tell us or what we tried ourselves.

    LOOK FOR THE MULTI_BILLION / MILLION DOLLAR STARS/ACTORS/ PROFESSIONALS FOR REAL (Their own) NATURAL HAIR AND THEN WE CAN REAL TREATMENT OR CURE IS HERE! Until then shut-up and live because we don’t have the answers!

  • washington

    ( R)you stopped to say that the cure this next one ??? better thus… because we do not have nothing of follica, intercytex, histogen, aderans…

  • Artista

    R
    exactly why do you come here? Im not trying to be offensive i really am curious.
    First of all i would like to point out that you are right on the money when speaking of watching celebs as sort of our barometers such as Ron Howard . These people in the public eye CAN afford whatever it takes to treat their hair. Id like to add though that i am SURE a HUGE portion of celebs,people in the public eye already HAVE treated their hair. The good FUEs/HTs arent noticable. Take for example Matthew McConaughey and Bruce Springsteen.(Brendan Fraser is a great example of what good HTs can do with the right money)
    Ron Howard is a Norwood7. Not much donor hair available for him and ,who knows, he may not be that anxious about it anymore. These regenerative trials are ONGOING. Even celebs have to W A I T for U.S. health issued approvals. Now i know you are a naturalist R, and thats cool by me but why are you starting to use this negative spin in re to the clinical trials? Shooter help me out here. End of July will give us a notion as to whats next,why are there so much negatism as of late?(

  • ZZ

    Artista,

    Seems to go in waves. The mood brightens after a good announcement but the optimism seems to fade quickly for many of the posters. I enjoy realistic reasonable discussions even if they are sobering but the name calling, conspiracy theories and the “my view of the product(i.e.propecia)/state of affairs is the only view” is juvenile and detracts from the forum. This is the only regular place I visit. I am happy to join a more private blog if it eventually comes to that. It may be 5+ years before something gets to market but I really believe that we will see someone turn the corner with a big clinical breakthru backed by undeniable before after photos within the next 2-3 years. Just an opinion. Shortly therafter I wouldn’t be surprised if that treatment found its way onto the market thru the back door (i.e copy cats, Europe, Asia, etc) We should get something positive from Histogen very shortly and for those of you who still have enough hair that it is worth your while to try to maintain, below is a link to mounting evidence of the beneifts of PRP (growth factros)….this by Dr. Feller See picures on page 4 and related discussion.

    http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1466060861/m/193100372/p/4

    Here’s to looking forward to some good news by at least the end of July.

  • A

    lol maybe R can link his depression back to his usage of propecia since that makes you become a pessimists and suffer from depression LOL

  • R

    I don’t use propecia and my comment will save all of you the trouble of wondering what is out there and when will it be available. If it is good…you will know. Just look at the wealthy bald guys until they are not bald anymore. How about some of you try the Botox route? A…you talk a big game but where is your research and contributions? You are overwhelmed and cry every night because of your hairloss or maybe…yes you are not losing your hair but depressed and lonely.

    You guys make me laugh in that everyday you worry for some major breakthrough that will end of this today. It won’t. You have to wait a little longer and hope that it will arrive within 5 years. So far there are not magic bullets, just multiple approaches they provide limited improvements. We will hear more news once they have something. Just relax and YES I DO BELIEVE IT WILL COME SOON! Just live and stop worrying. What ever approach you choose…make sure it is safe and you attack it from multiple angles for the time being.

  • R is right

    Im here to defend R’s latest statements. He is usually upbeat and positive but I cant fault him for blowing up. How can we expect him not to with everyone bickering and complaining non stop!! month in month out.

    the reason it seems we have been waiting forever!!! for a clue is because we have deluded ourselves.

    even though the the reward for whomever finds a new treatment or god willing a cure will be insane, the money being spent in researching hair loss is peanuts.

    another thing is we are not as advanced as we all like to think that we are. people wanted a cure in the 70’s and 80’s. because we have color tv and blackberries we expect cures to genetic problems!! get real guys.

    science is progressing but only just recently.

    I realize no matter what i post it may only be taken to heart by 1 person so I wont go on.

    just look at what has actually changed in the last 10 years////not that much guys…smaller cell phones and computers but no real medical breakthroughs that have actually been put into real day practice.

    all we can do is wait.

  • droppin by

    ok i agreed with everything “agree with R” said except for the part about we haven’t advanced much in the last ten years…that’s the most ridiculous thing i’ve ever heard…there have been a lot of improvements in basically everything including science and technology…otherwise good comment…anyways hopefully we get something soon!

  • R is right

    droppin by :)

    i just mean that obviously things have been improved but no mind blowing changes have been implemented into society in technology, medicine etc. I think all that has really happened is that technologies have been tweaked.

    Tape players then cd’s then mini disk players, mp3 players and now ipods…its all built upon the same idea.

    WE FIRST NEED a decent treatment to build upon for hair loss and believe me HT’S, aint it.

    I dont use fin but I acknowledge its ability (side effects aside) to slow down hair loss. so how many tweaks until a side effect free treatment through either drugs or a procedure is available??? anyone’s guess

    another mind blowing thing to me is that stars and rich balding people have not dumped money into research!

    imagine how much more lucrative Nicholas Cage’s, John Travolta, Jude Law’s career could/would be if they had kept up their natural hairlines. NOT to say that it has hindered ALL celebs care or even that they mind. (talked about to death I KNOW) just too bad is all

  • Artista

    ZZ i am in complete 100% agreement with your input. Im not into these debates that seem to be picking up steam.
    Its such a waste of time as is the name calling, the pro/con propecia arguing etc etc. For the record, I never said or thought that there would be an overnite ‘cure’. Also I never sensed that anyone else that is optimistic here felt that way either. There is too much assuming going on with those that want to dispell other peoples expectations. I did say and still believe (as ZZ does)that a treatment will be available for us within the single digit years. That is not to say that i expect to see bald men regaining a full head of hair all of a sudden,,but who knows. None of us know either way , thats for sure. By the way,,thanks ZZ for the Dr.Feller info, those pics are very incouraging. I may take a little trip down to Florida this year. How is your PRP treatment coming along anyway?

  • ZZ

    Artista, I also sense that there are many optimistic people here that are reasonable in their expectations. I think that group often gets overshadowed by the “its either black or white” crowd. I visit this site often but not out of desperation. I have a full life going on and I visit as a little pick me up to see if anything new is going on. My prp has not responded like the pics but I may know why and I am in the process of checking that out. It will be several months before I can report back but I will keep you posted. I believe there is great science behind it. We know from Follica & Histogen that one component of the ultimate formula will probably include growth factors in combination with stat3(wounding). Follica & Histogen will of course have other components. PRP doesn’t have these added components. The other thing is that PRP, by virtue of what it is and how it is processed, has all of the growth factors found in the blood, some of which are not positive for growing hair (TGF Beta). However, the sum total of the PRP cocktail appears to end up in the positive. Let me know before you decide to do anything and I will find a way to provide more details. There a now a number of people performing prp but on the short list from the research I have done, you have Greco, Cooley and Feller who lend a great deal of cedibility.

  • JimQ

    # weisalmaneasal
    6/22/09 7:24 pm

    thanks R. Yeah I rate that thomas whitfield is well onto something as too. You don’t get Phds from Oxford University in bio-chemistry without being exceptionally intelligent. I find it hard hard to beleive that he would put go out on a limb, in the fashion that he has, without having something. My reckoning is that it’ll be something that ‘ll maintain or give slight regrowth and wont be fantastically helpful for alot of people on here, unfortunately.
    # A
    6/23/09 8:22 am
    ——————————————
    I think the best case scenario with Whitfield is we never hear from him again. Worst case scenario is he comes out with some BS product like A&G Hair Complex and steals money from people. He has a degree, yes, but the A&G jokers are doctors, they have degrees as well.

  • JimQ

    # A
    7/6/09 7:28 pm

    lol maybe R can link his depression back to his usage of propecia since that makes you become a pessimists and suffer from depression LOL
    ———————————-
    LOL. You come off sounding like an idiot. LOL. Your grammar is a joke. LOL.

  • R

    Everyone…A is not balding but an adolescent playing games.. Ignore his posts and continue. This is how we eliminate the people that come here an play. What we have is a time of innovation and a turning point to understand many biological reasonings and approaches to hair loss. my comments are based on everyone please not get frustrated and continued to live your life as this is something that shouldn’t cost you your lively hood. Enjoy the summer!

  • Maverick

    Does anybody know what happened with Histogen lawsuit? This article said that they were damaged hard.

    http://www.xconomy.com/san-diego/2009/02/24/patent-lawsuit-against-histogen-forces-layoffs-and-a-scramble-for-new-funding/

  • R

    Everyone…Once a company has a viable solution and as well as their employees willing to stay on without pay, we have a damn good chance of seeing this hit the market. The law suit may side track them and for good reason. Hair loss cures or excellent treatments will provide an avenue to eliminate HT’s and other hair loss snake oils that will drive $ billions away and sink many subpar ships.

    When you see a lawsuit..it is because the plantiff wants the technology and pursue it or they will try eliminate real solutions from eliminating them. Sounds like a conspiracy theory but look at how many people will be out of work and billions taken away from the other companies. I beliebe Histogen will succeed big time and will show new investors soon.

  • JimQ

    # Maverick
    6/29/09 12:24 pm

    MPB is a genetic problem and “designer babies” are a perfect example of making humans with fixed genetics. Or at least starting that era.

    Maybe you can´t grow your old hair back, but maybe you can fix your genes so you will not transfer your bald genes to your children. And for the ones that have already lost their hair, a new treatment(HM or whatever) should do the job.
    ———————————–
    The problem with this theory is two fold.
    1) Gene therapy has caused at least one death (in Israel), and is still in the very early stages.
    2) The genes responsible for MPB have not necessarily been positively identified.

    It would be nice to know that your kids won’t be affected. My MPB, among other genetic problems, is the reason I will never have children.

  • Maverick
  • Maverick

    Well we know about at least three genes so far, we can try to fix them and see what happens. Why do you choose not to have children? If MPB is the main reason then you my friend are in a really deep depression.

  • JimQ

    # Maverick
    7/8/09 3:04 pm

    Well we know about at least three genes so far, we can try to fix them and see what happens. Why do you choose not to have children? If MPB is the main reason then you my friend are in a really deep depression.
    ———————————————
    It’s not the main reason so much as the icing on the cake. But really, you have to get laid to have kids so I’m not really worried about it.
    I think (as a non-scientist) that we are decades away from seeing gene therapy in wide spread use, especially for something like baldness.

  • Maverick

    Oh come on man, you are gonna get your lady, change your pessimistic behavior. Women are far more insecure than us, if she smells insecurity in you, you will accomplish nothing. Don´t loose your head. As far as gene therapy, I think that it will be available by 2050.

  • James

    Histogen have updated there page in one minor detail.. they have now created a specialised tab for hair growth complex when before it was headed under just regenica, to me this tiny change means that they are indeed still progressing

    Ciao

  • ZZ

    Nice work James. Your post led me to take a closer look at Histogen’s site…also new to my knowledge under the “Investor” section:

    “By focusing on short-term products that require no regulatory approval, as well as products that are regulated under the 510(k) process, the Company expects to achieve a revenue stream that will help support the development and clinical trials of other therapeutic products which address larger, more lucrative markets. With successful Phase I and Phase II trials for hair growth, it is believed that the Company will have the ability to do an IPO within the next 5-7 years. Histogen started a 24 patient hair safety study in Q4 2008. Positive results will allow the company the potential to do an IPO earlier, within 2-3 years.”

    Not the clearest of statements but the net implication seems like a plus.

  • Haircoach

    A new entry in the Follica’s team: Shikha P. Barman, Ph.D.

    http://www.follicabio.com/content/board-and-executive-team/

  • James

    Thanks ZZ

    Haircoach, that is a good find, i particulary like:

    “Dr. Barman has over 16 years of experience in the translation of concepts into products”

    I personally think this speaks volumes!

    On the Hair multiplication approach i also found:

    http://www.ibridgenetwork.org/columbia/ir2293-2524-mao

    Although not primarily hairloss it shows how familar and accepted hair cloning is within the science community,and that new buisnesses within science are aware of the technology and the demand in this emergent industry.

    J

  • JimQ

    Clearly this stuff is moving along, I just fear we’ll all be older men before any comes to market. I don’t want to postpone life until I’m 40…
    I still think Histogen has the best chance, and if they’re talking about an IPO in 2-3 years, they’re pretty confident.
    Problems remain.
    1) Efficacy. I think there is a tendency in the hairloss world to release products regardless of how effective they are. Take Rogaine for example. It won’t give you anything resembling a full head of hair, but it “works” as a treatment simply because there’s nothing better. I fear that these products, at least in the first few years, will be similar.
    2) Cost. How much??? If something costs upwards of a few thousand dollars and gives Rogaine/Propecia like results, I’m not buying.

  • A
  • jordan

    histogen has already said $5000 for treatment, plus the first pic from the trails looks pretty good, alot better than anything out there bar ht’s

  • R

    I will provide pictures on how asprin changes a Norwood 7 to a Norwood 1 in 30 days. Pictures never impressed me as much as actual comments from lay-people who are the actual and only judges of a products effectiveness. Sorry, propecia and rogaine are not that effective and both lose potency (build-tolerance) to them and proecia has a 30% – 40% chance of given men tits. Buyer beware!

  • Artista

    Asprin can change a Norwood 7 to a Norwood 1? In 30 days?
    R please knock it off with sensationalistic claims,,ok????? If asprin could actually do that then there wouldnt be a bald man out there today. I havent and wouldnt knock you for advocating a natural approach…to anything hair/health related but THIS SITE is created for something else. You have gone too far with that irresponsible claim.

  • R

    Look kiss my ass I owe nobody here anything. If you wnat the truth then wait until the end of the year and then if nothing…then wait until 2015 as predicted by Histogen. You will not see anything prior so wait 6 years and get an F(*&k *&^life. You guys need hair to get laid. WTF. Grow up get your prescription drugs and get HT’s or whatever soothes your aching soul. I have been balding for 20 years and still get hot asses and have had HT’s and still get hot assess why….because I have a great personality. So stoip whining and wait until 2015 as stated by Histogen. I cannot believe how many uneducated little bitches whine over every little comment. Just start getting laid so you all can become men. If hair loss stops you from living then get a sex change…buy a wig and let bald men have their way with you all.

    It just hair and you can live without hair. My last comment on propecia and Ht’s your choice and you have all been educated on the good and the bad. See you in 2015 and I will leave you with a box of tissues and a number for prostitutes to help turn you all into men.

  • JimQ

    # A
    7/9/09 10:27 pm

    You should not be so quick to judge the results of propecia and minoxidil.

    http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=22969

    http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=44412

    http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=48097

    ————————————–
    I have reasons for saying that. I’m already on enough daily skin treatments that twice a day Rogaine is really not something I want to get into.
    I consider Propecia dangerous and will not mess with my body’s hormones like that. Just way too sketchy for me.

    I think R was joking about the aspirin.

  • A

    Oh how you make me laugh R, as a matter of fact i would like to take you up on the aspirin photos so please do share yeah?

    Genitourinary side effects

    Two hundred fourteen reports of gynecomastia in men taking finasteride in the United States were received by the FDA between June 1992 and February 1995. Among those reported, fifty-eight percent were taking additional medications that have been associated with gynecomastia. Sixty-nine of 86 patients who discontinued finasteride treatment had partial or complete remission.

    New reports of drug-related sexual adverse experiences have been reported to decrease with duration of therapy.

    Genitourinary side effects have included impotence (1.1% to 18.5%), abnormal ejaculation (7.2%), decreased ejaculatory volume (0.9% to 2.8%), abnormal sexual function (2.5%), gynecomastia (2.2%), erectile dysfunction (1.3%), ejaculation disorder (1.2%), and testicular pain. The manufacturer has reported that in controlled clinical trials, 1.2% of patients on finasteride tablets discontinued therapy because of a drug-related sexual adverse experience.

  • Artista

    R ,
    you completely erased ANY credibility you may have had prior to that last statement. I respected you for ,what seemed to be, an earnest attempt to educate people on the merits of using natural ‘remedies’ opposed to manufactured drugs. It seems all you really want to do here is pick fights.
    You also feel it to be important for us to know that YOU get laid regardless of your balding head. What does that tell you? You have a skewed view of others here as well. Could it be that you are actually reflecting(showing us YOUR insecurities)?
    No one here is whining. The majority of us are here to see what will be next in this new research. Unfortunately we are sometimes inundated with argumentative, immature, negative and crass people who want to spur useless debates that have nothing to do with this site.

  • Metsie

    Please people enough of propecia, I appreciate the evidence presented pro & con but at this point if somebody is still taking that crap then F him. His choice, life goes on. I dont understand why the laser comb or any other .5 assed snake oil gets this attention.
    R, dude, relax everybody has seen doctored photos, matters not. When the real deal comes out, they wont have to waste any money trying to prove it works,it will sell itself and bury the snake oils. In the mean time Im going on a Tylenol regime and getting fitted for a wig, just kidding.

  • R

    What you just witnessed is a personality presented here and everywhere based on not listening and understanding what is being stated. Maybe this out-spoken approach will make you realize if you all think is that 2012 to 2015 is our best time frame and nothing more. This was stated by the researchers. See you in 2012! A please take propecia, I hope you grow tits!!! Everyone else you need to realize that you only want hair to feel attractive and F&*K nothing more. Don’t bullshit yourselfs. HAIRLOSS CURE IS COMING FASTER THAN YOU THINK AND EVERYONE OF YOU SHOULD WORKOUT AND STOP WHINING ABOUT STUPID SHIT. YOU ARE BETTER THAN THAT (I HOPE) SO PLEASE LIVE AND LET FATE DETERMINE A CURE OR YOU SOLVE THIS MESS BY MAJORING IN BIOCHEMISTRY. I CANT BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE BELEIVED THE ASPRIN COMMENT. SON OF B&*^TH.

  • R

    Credibility!!!! I have provided links and many approaches and insight into this site and help guide this forum..What I have are a bunch of pussy cats whining about a cure tomorrow, lack of sex because of obesity, not having children because of hairloss…come on!

    This site when amuck and you should wait until 2012 or 2015 to see the future. “A” this iste is yours my pessemistic friend. Make sure you wear a push-up bra to help attract more people in your life. You people just don’t get it and you never will because you are all nerds who chose to quit rather than fight for your dignity and spot on this earth.

    Live and yes yes yes yes a cure will be here soon. I promise and I am not being a fraud on that front. Hair loss cure is coming sooner than later. I just can’t take the lack of life response from you guys. I care and feel sorrow for you as you all just don’t get science, time and patience and the happiness of life beyond the follicle. Hairloss sucks but more to life than just hair.

    My credibility represents the past posts from day one and information provided. No one hair has matched my contributions or raised the paltform for you to judge. I guess it is stated that you cant help everyone so help yourself. Time is a ticking people and you should before it all runs out.

  • Artista

    Not a person here believed the asprin comment at all but did believe that someone like YOU R, would make a rediculous claim like that. I see you still have it in for ‘A’ over the stupid propecia B.S.!Youve contradicted yourself on a timeframe that is based on nothing but speculations but you dont speak for anyone else here. There are those of us who DO workout on a regular basis, who DO take care of our bodies and DO date or are married regardless of how much hair we have or dont have. For some of us it isnt a matter of getting laid, it is a personal desire when we look in the mirror.Self confidence comes in many different forms. You are no better or worse than the rest of us. If hairloss didnt bother you in the same way as it does us,YOU wouldnt be here.

  • R

    Arista…you big whiner this is my last post and yes I HAVE IT ALL AND WAS HERE TO HELP YOU DEGENERATES! GOODBYE!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • rev

    wow.

  • KKwilliams

    wow indeed eh rev.

    I dont blame R for any of his latest outbursts. He tried to stay positive but why is it he always has to pick us all up and remain positive?!

    He is a well informed guy and has contributed tons of info/links and helped numerous people retain their hope, which is all “we” have for now.

    This happens everywhere online where the constant voices of sanity are pushed to their limits and then explode and just stop posting.

    R is you leave thats our loss. That being said..I have realized that nothing is gonna change tomorrow! we all need to stop checking so frequently on the cures progress. I doubt anything will change within the next 6 months..(at least that we will know about)

    whenever a cure/treatment is even within 2 years of possible release the internet news will find u!!! Its not like if we dont keep reading these sites everyday we will miss the day they hand out the cure in the mall :)

    p.s. R’s comment about aspirin was obviously a shot at how pictures are a joke in terms of proving real results in regards to hair regrowth etc.

    use your brains guys. Its sad to see what just transpired here the last few days.

    peace :)

  • A

    There is no credibility in abusing people for standing up to them. You can take as many personal shots at me as you like, i never once said anything negative about ANY of the cures potentially coming to market infact i welcome that.

    What i said and state is that until we have a viable option to solve hairloss NOTHING will save your hair no hippy drugs or other tablet, believe me if any vitamins worked at curing hairloss do you actually believe they would not find the money to go through the FDA – if you really believe this your crazy. Hairloss is a billion dollar industry and if there was a cure out there then people would know it by now. You R scare people from trying the only PROVEN way to stop hairloss, get over it there is no way your holding onto your hair without the big 3 in hairloss its just not going to happen, and something i still find interesting is that you take propecia yourself or you did through 2008 and that is fact from your OWN writing.

    So abuse me all you want but you cant ever prove me wrong on this because all you have is a couple of go nowhere studies from hairloss-research whilst i got credible studies from various scientific bodies that show without a shadow of a doubt that 30-40% side effects are just ridiculous, at-least i can show pictures of people having success with hairloss drugs.

    Oh and let me state again that im hoping for something to cure hairloss to come out and i remain positive that something will, im trying to help you people now Not in 5 years if you have to wait then its all about maintaining what you have and that is all im trying to get through to you people.

  • OS

    So whats new guys?.. you finally starting to realize that R is a megalomaniac?

  • Dave
  • KKwilliams

    Great article/ made me smile inside(dont tell anyone though)

    just editing.
    Isnt this the same as intercytex though? I mean if that company is not finding funding/being able to move forward what chance does this have?

    wish there were pics!

  • James

    Dave thats an amazing find, put a smile on my face thanks!

    Now thats what this forum is for!

    Enjoy your weekends

    J

  • Maverick

    That is a nice find. It is clear now that the West is not the only one developing this technology and that is more than good.

  • JimQ

    # R
    7/10/09 4:46 pm

    What you just witnessed is a personality presented here and everywhere based on not listening and understanding what is being stated. Maybe this out-spoken approach will make you realize if you all think is that 2012 to 2015 is our best time frame and nothing more. This was stated by the researchers. See you in 2012! A please take propecia, I hope you grow tits!!! Everyone else you need to realize that you only want hair to feel attractive and F&*K nothing more. Don’t bullshit yourselfs. HAIRLOSS CURE IS COMING FASTER THAN YOU THINK AND EVERYONE OF YOU SHOULD WORKOUT AND STOP WHINING ABOUT STUPID SHIT. YOU ARE BETTER THAN THAT (I HOPE) SO PLEASE LIVE AND LET FATE DETERMINE A CURE OR YOU SOLVE THIS MESS BY MAJORING IN BIOCHEMISTRY. I CANT BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE BELEIVED THE ASPRIN COMMENT. SON OF B&*^TH.

    ————————————-
    I told you guys he was joking about the aspirin.

  • JimQ

    # Dave
    7/10/09 11:29 pm

    Found some new news!

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=a6OdEa5VFNV8

    —————————–
    That article relates to alopecia areata, not MPB. Two completely different conditions, so two completely different treatments.

  • Artista

    Thats true JimQ those are two different treatments but a ~feel good~ nonetheless. And yes you were right about R’s aspirin comment. Just kinda had enough of the inflammatory junk that has been going on here of recent. Too much focus on pro/con propecia news and name calling. Hopefully that type of treatment will be considered prehistoric sooner rather than later. This site is suppose to be focused on that.

  • A

    That news article mentioned that they planned to test it on Androgenetic Alopecia to see if it could produce the same results, guess its just a matter of waiting now. I feel that the IHRS conference will have 1 bit of BIG news which will put smiles on our faces, i truly believe histogen will show awe inspiring results, and that there phase II will begin and they will be increasing the injections 10 fold.

  • James

    If the article is read properly then it is clear that they expect to be able to expand the study for male pattern baldness, as so far they have just targeted children affected by baldnes created by Areta, but the general principle in actually getting new hair from stemcells to grow on bald skin doesnt matter what condition made you lose its the fact you were able to create brand new hair, the theory is there,

  • Artista

    I agree with both of you A and James. The end of the month will produce ,,SOMETHING. there is no doubt in my mind.

  • JoJo

    From Artista
    7/11/09 11:50 am

    I agree with both of you A and James. The end of the month will produce ,,SOMETHING. there is no doubt in my mind
    —————————

    I agree, it will produce the beginning of August … you heard it here first.

  • A

    International Society of Hair Restoration Surgery 17th Annual Scientific Meeting

    Description:

    The International Society of Hair Restoration Surgery (ISHRS), the world’s leading medical authority on hair loss and hair restoration, will hold its 17th Annual Scientific Meeting Wed., July 22, to Sun., July 26, 2009, at the RAI Convention Centre in Amsterdam, The Netherlands.

    More than 500 physicians and surgical assistants from around the world dedicated to advancing the art and science of hair restoration are expected to attend this premier Continuing Medical Educational event, which offers interactive sessions, live patient viewing, expert panels and guest speakers. The theme of this year’s conference, “Cultivating the Beauty of Regeneration: Innovations in the Science and Surgery of Hair Restoration,” is appropriate for the bulb (previously tulip, now hair follicle) capital of the world, Amsterdam. It speaks to the continual advances in hair restoration surgery that provide natural-looking, permanent results.

    Every year, hot topics that are presented include the latest diagnostics and clinical applications for hair loss, factors that contribute to hair loss in women, the psychological aspects of hair loss, best practices in eyelash and eyebrow transplantation, and updates on promising new research in hair cloning.
    Date: July 22, 2009 – July 26, 2009
    Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
    Venue: RAI Convention Centre

    This is the conference that im so so waiting for. Histogen is presenting its phase I results here and i am really waiting to see the full results from the one Injection safety trial.

  • Artista

    Thanks A for the input. I am a bit excited to hear of the latest tech news from the ISHRS Convention this month.We ALL are. Hope for the best guys. If anything we will have a better understanding as to whats next!

  • The wizard

    I just wanted to stop by and say dont get too excited about news from this conference guys.

    Hopefully we get through it without any big let downs but going in too excited just sets us up for heartache. It also lets all the negative nuts come out in full force immediately after and then we get stuck arguing for months!!!

    NO DOUBT progress is being made so lets just be patient and hope for the best.

    my 2 c

  • A

    I see what you saying man, im just hoping for something great from Histogen, and i feel what they already shown us was GREAT it terms nothing like that has ever been seen before, hopefully the results increased over the last month or more and we will see a very nice picture from them. But yes i agree with what you said Wizard.

  • Stranger

    Hi Folks,

    They will bring Success for sure as they do realize they provide life changing cure – better than any drug which cures the most dangerous disease..

    Hope You guys agree that.. :)

  • James

    Do we have confirmation rearding Histogen releasing there results at this conference, i speculated that they might, as they failed to release data in May as they initially said they would?

    I Also agree going off past conventions there has been nothing exceptional come about

  • CROMAN

    Hi people.I come from Croatia.
    What’s your opinion about Procerin?

  • Maverick

    Croman, zemljace.:) I doubt Procerin will solve your problem because you still have a lot of DHT circulating in the blood. It may though lower the DHT on the scalp but it will as I´ve said not solve your problem. What we need are solid DHT resistant follicles. Until then all this is just snake oil. Charlatans rule at this field right now but not for long I hope.

  • ZZ

    James,

    The site under the HSC tab states “full results will be made public in the coming months” but I have no idea when that was posted. I spoke with Eileen Brandt on June 24th and she was expecting a release in 2 weeks (Wed will be 3 weeks). As you suggested earlier, I suspect that they are pushing hard to release in time for the conference to create maximum buzz. But there are certainly no guarantees.

    In the mean time see this link for research in the works for next generation of prp to include stem cells.

    http://www.baldtruthtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1155

  • A

    Croman buyer beware is the way to go with Procerin, i doubt it will do anything to solve your hairloss problems. If you looking for a topical DHT blocker go with Nizoral and maybe topical Spiro, which is good for maintaining other then that minox and propecia are about your only hope.

    Histogen will be at the hairloss summit, and based on their pictures from a month or so ago i think they will show the world something very promising as they have set the bar for themselves by releasing those pictures, who knows maybe even follica and aderans will make a presentation. Hopefully one thing comes that will be good.

  • CROMAN

    Thanks people!
    Maverick,do you speak my language?If you do I’ll put my e-mail adress here so I can ask you some Questions.
    Of course,if you agree with that!

  • Maverick

    Naravno da pricam. ;) Here is my mail Croman maserati_ferarri@yahoo.com

  • CROMAN

    Thank’s a lot!

  • Hello all! We received a request from a poster to provide an update on this forum. We are pleased to share the news that an interview with Histogen CEO Dr. Gail Naughton will be published in the official journal of the ISHRS, and includes some updates that may be of interest. Please look for this online within the next 2 weeks.

    Additionally Dr. Craig Ziering, hair restoration specialist and primary investigator on Histogen’s hair regrowth clinical trial, will indeed be presenting findings from the trial at the upcoming ISHRS International Meeting in Amsterdam. Histogen plans to address the presentation in a press release soon.

    Please feel free to contact us through our website with any questions: http://www.histogen.com.

  • Haircoach
  • James

    I had come along to give my 2cents after listening to a documentary on stemcells but instead were rewarded with feedback from Histogen! Confidence

    Is Histogen concept only useful if you still have hair?

    After reading demoralised posters about when if ever we will see something promising and then reading about scientists having created artficial sperm, and using temcells from a tooth to restore sight in a person, and also about preperations to commence injections of stemcells to restore paralysis and the ability to grow new organs, i.e trachea in spain last year, it really does not not take a giant leap to hear scientists have cracked growing hair does it? well they have just not cosmetically appealing.

    Anyhow i think its briliant Histogen have posted, i feel inspired

    J

  • A

    WOW Histogen is replying here, that is amazing hey i knew you guys would be presenting at the hair summit, there must be some pretty good results if you are to set up a press release for your visit to the hair conference, i need to get off propecia hahah so please let it be really good news and not just NEWS. Thankyou so much for coming onboard and posting, you will have made alot of people happy just by sharing that little bit of info thanks so much again.

  • Artista

    Thank you Histogen for your much needed input here. We look forward to the upcoming events.
    See guys? Histogen will have SOMETHING to present at the ISHRS. Not saying that it will be ground breaking BUT not saying that it WONT BE either. One step at a time. And to you detractors out there. Please allow the positive energy to flow here awhile before you start to tear it down oK?

  • Stranger

    Well said Artista..

    Hello All,
    Hope which is the only Driving Force will never fail..

  • OS

    Histogen! we had enough from you and the other companies false statements! give some prof or f***-off, no more false hopes!!

  • A

    Histogen already proved a prrof of concept when they released pictures which showed clear visual of new hair follicles come on man it was right there infront of you.

  • ZZ

    Well said Artista. Obviously and unfortunatley, there are those with respect to which positive energy is not an option. However, even they are not totally without purpose as they serve to highlight how lucky the rest of us are that we are not mired with such a myopic, close minded, immature, defeatest, bitter, toxic attitude & perspective!

    My apologies to Histogen.

  • Metsie

    Better them then us !

  • James

    A few thoughts?

    This is not phase I results but preclinical correct?

    Is it possible to skip phase I? with a thorough preclinical?

    Its estimated at costing $5000? thats alot for an injection

    How long does it last?

    Do you need hair to begin with or does it stimulate dormant follices?

    There pressrelease may infact be linked to the commercialisation of a topical shampoe
    based on the same technology, it was speculated in prior correspondance i had with them.?

    5 years is a very untrusted timescale

  • ZZ

    James,

    Not sure about many of your questions but the pre-clinical indicates that it will grow new follciles: “In addition to seeing no adverse reactions, we were delighted to see more hair, thicker hair shafts, and what appears to be the growth of completely new hair follicles in the areas that received the ReGenica treatment.”

    I quess the question on that front is whether it grows enough new follicles to be cosmetically significant. However, under the theory that follicles don’t die they just go dormant, maybe the complex is powerful enough to awaken dormant follicles and grow back into terminal hair. Your guess is as good as mine. I am hoping we get a better understanding of this when they release more details.

  • Artista

    ZZ ,
    Over all, in years past I (as well as everyone else im sure) had believed that ,in simple terms, our hair was essentially ‘strangled’ to death. Never to be brought back from the dead. Gosh, what a ‘miracle’ of sorts it is in that the med/sci community had recently found out that that is not the case at all! That alone is amazing and yet ‘we’ are already taking that fact for granted. Excuse my optimism some of you, but we may very well be at the brink of something unique in hair care. Maybe the silence had we experienced from these companies was for good reason. Hope for the best and adapt with the worst i say.

  • Maverick

    It is time for medicine to evolve, nothing revolutionary happened since penicilin and that is a very long time. Stem cells and genetic engineering are going to be next on the scene.

  • JoJo

    # James
    7/15/09 1:04 pm

    A few thoughts?

    This is not phase I results but preclinical correct?

    1) Is it possible to skip phase I? with a thorough preclinical?

    2) Its estimated at costing $5000? thats alot for an injection

    3) How long does it last?

    4) Do you need hair to begin with or does it stimulate dormant follices?

    5) There pressrelease may infact be linked to the commercialisation of a topical shampoe
    based on the same technology, it was speculated in prior correspondance i had with them.?

    6)5 years is a very untrusted timescale
    ______________________________________

    1)Yes, of course

    2)It will get cheaper

    3) Forever, trust me

    4) It does stimulates dormant follices if you want too

    5)Yes, a “topical” shampoo ( no oral shampoo version still, sorry )will be launched very soon, in a few months really

    6)It won’t be 5 years but 5 months as the shampoo will likely be the cure by itself

  • KKwilliams

    JoJo,

    dont make such ridiculous projections man. too many guys on here buy to much into claims like that.

    I personally didnt find the histogen pics that “amazing”. I think most of the awe effect was because the hair was longer..but I do agree it looked like some improvement had occurred and increasing the density is what the next few years of trials is for.

    Since now we are in the know that our hair is still actually there but just completely dormant. DOES THIS NOT scare the sh*t outta everyone who has had an ht!!!!?

    I mean dont you think having all those incisions in our scalp has destroyed a lot of our dormant follicles and will severely hinder results by future treatments? Im curious…

  • JS

    KKwilliams, Follica are talking about growing new follicles from scratch, so if you are a burns patient or for whatever reason your Follicles have been completely destroyed then their treatment will solve that problem.

    I’m not getting any hopes up about these companies, but regardless of their success it’s become very clear that Medical technology is on the verge of something new and in many aspects amazing discoveries.

  • OS

    New my a@# they been talking about HM for 10 years now!!

  • JimQ

    # JoJo
    7/15/09 5:51 pm

    # James
    7/15/09 1:04 pm

    A few thoughts?

    This is not phase I results but preclinical correct?

    1) Is it possible to skip phase I? with a thorough preclinical?

    2) Its estimated at costing $5000? thats alot for an injection

    3) How long does it last?

    4) Do you need hair to begin with or does it stimulate dormant follices?

    5) There pressrelease may infact be linked to the commercialisation of a topical shampoe
    based on the same technology, it was speculated in prior correspondance i had with them.?

    6)5 years is a very untrusted timescale
    ______________________________________

    1)Yes, of course

    2)It will get cheaper

    3) Forever, trust me

    4) It does stimulates dormant follices if you want too

    5)Yes, a “topical” shampoo ( no oral shampoo version still, sorry )will be launched very soon, in a few months really

    6)It won’t be 5 years but 5 months as the shampoo will likely be the cure by itself
    ————————————–
    Man, this is so nuts. The only thing you need to know about the credibility of this poster is that he used the term “oral shampoo”. WTF is that? Toothpaste?
    1) You cannot skip Phase 1, Phase 1 is the safety evaluation.
    2) Possibly correct.
    3) I don’t trust you because unless you are a Histogen scientist who knows that this injection will not only stimulate hair growth but also neutralize the effects of DHT, you’re wrong.
    4) Chemicals don’t do what you want them to do, they do what they want to do.
    5) See comments earlier about “oral shampoo” and how completely ridiculous that is.
    6) There’s no chance of a shampoo that both stimulates hair growth and reverses the effects of DHT being released in 5 months. Sorry.

    Disregard everything this poster says. If you believe him, and believe in “Oral shampoo”, give me your email address. I’ve got a closet full of oral shampoo that not only cures baldness, but cancer and AIDS as well, and I’ll sell it to you at a bargain price.

  • JoJo

    # JimQ
    7/16/09 9:48 am

    Disregard everything this poster says. If you believe him, and believe in “Oral shampoo” …
    ______________________________

    LOL !

  • JimQ

    # JoJo
    7/16/09 10:41 am

    # JimQ
    7/16/09 9:48 am

    Disregard everything this poster says. If you believe him, and believe in “Oral shampoo” …
    ______________________________

    LOL !

    ============================
    You’re the one that posted the nonsense. I did nothing other than point out that your post is, in fact, complete nonsense.

  • micheal

    doesnt anyone here have a connection to thomas whitfield? the oxford student. i mean you cant just make claims on curing baldness and disappear. wtf?! if he comes up with nothing, we should hunt him down

  • JimQ

    # micheal
    7/16/09 12:03 pm

    doesnt anyone here have a connection to thomas whitfield? the oxford student. i mean you cant just make claims on curing baldness and disappear. wtf?! if he comes up with nothing, we should hunt him down
    ==================================
    WHEN it comes out that he has nothing, his reputation will be damaged. That’s good enough for me. I wonder if he’ll put “Capable of making completely ridiculous statements” on his resume.

  • Metsie

    If I told you I went to Princeton would you believe everything I said?? Granted its not Oxford but who’s counting.

  • JoJo

    # micheal
    7/16/09 12:03 pm

    i mean you cant just make claims on curing baldness and disappear
    ____

    Why not ?

    ——————-

    # JimQ
    7/16/09 12:35 pm

    WHEN it comes out that he has nothing, his reputation will be damaged.
    ________________________

    D’you think ?
    BTW, you haven’t understood the sense of my messages but I laughed a lot with the oral shampoo

  • JimQ

    # JoJo
    7/16/09 5:03 pm

    # micheal
    7/16/09 12:03 pm

    i mean you cant just make claims on curing baldness and disappear
    ____

    Why not ?

    ——————-

    # JimQ
    7/16/09 12:35 pm

    WHEN it comes out that he has nothing, his reputation will be damaged.
    ________________________

    D’you think ?
    BTW, you haven’t understood the sense of my messages but I laughed a lot with the oral shampoo

    —————–
    My point is that you don’t go to Oxford hoping to pump gas. If it becomes known to some potential employer that this guy is known for making silly, sensational claims, its going to make things difficult for him. Good. Remember, he was written up in a few large British newspapers.
    I think I understand. You’re joking, just like the other guy here who said that aspirin cures baldness.

  • KKwilliams

    hey guys not sure how many of you guys use the regular forums but I was just wandering around a site I used to post a lot on and came across this VERY INTERESTING post.

    It will be of particular interest to fin users as it is about possible neurological effects of taking fin.

    the guy discussing seems to know his stuff and is studying about the neurology/biology in school

    the post is located at

    http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/messageview.cfm?catid=10&threadid=85335&enterthread=y

    I would personally NEVER touch the stuff but let me know what you guys think

  • rev

    ughh. I’ve been on this crap for 10 years, and I’ve long suspected it had something to do with my brain fog.

  • Artista

    Hey Rev,
    just out of curiosity, you say that you have been on Finasteride for approx 10 years.
    Have you achieved any overall improvement to your hair that you can say Fin’ did do? I certainly hope that those of you who have been using it will not experience any problems.

  • rev

    Arista, your question would require the use of a time machine, so I can: go back 10 years, convince my past-self not to take propecia, log my intelligence quotient annually along with photographs of my hairline. Than I could use that information to benchmark my hair quality and cognitive abilities against 10 years of using propecia. You wouldn’t happen to have a time machine? Would you? :)

    I really don’t want to answer too many personal questions about myself online (you must concede that this place is full of lurkers and shills), but I will say this much. I noticed hairloss at an early age, got on propecia and stopped obsessing about hair until roughly 4 years ago when I noticed some additional loss. Nobody tells you this slut drug plateaus after a certain period of time, and nobody tells you it can affect your cognitive functioning. Big pharm thrives on a life-long allegiances/ dependency to their half-ass products. Propecia is no exception; I can only imagine what else we’ll learn about this product in oncoming years.

  • Maverick

    I wonder what we will find out about dutasteride too. All fin side effects times 2 or maybe more.

  • Artista

    Rev,
    Thanks for the response. Yes i agree that one cannot give out too much personal info here so i do appreciate your input.I thought i would ask because you have 10 years behind you now with using the med. I was always wary of using any of the available drugs for MPB and so i never did use them. Mostly because of the very limited results ,if any at all. I hope that all here will have a brighter future in re to what we are here for.

  • rev

    Here’s the patent (and picture) of Follica’s delivery device (thanks to haircoach for finding this info)

    Picture
    http://www.wipo.int/pctdb/images/PCT-IMAGES/14052009/US2008011979_14052009_gz_en.x4-b.jpg

    Patent
    http://tinyurl.com/lxbfdd

  • Haircoach

    :-)

  • Haircoach

    In the next days it will be visible the last patent of Follica about this new device:

    http://v3.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=20090715&CC=EP&NR=2077819A2&KC=A2

  • appleman

    what do you guys think?

  • AM

    Hmm, from the picture of the delivery system, if that’s an accurate representation… It seems like the procedure will be done at a clinic, and not as a kit as we would want it to be such that it can be used at home in private. Shame, but better than nothing I guess.

  • JS

    AM, if it works like they think it will, it will give you a full head of hair. That’s much much better than nothing.

  • S

    Is this recent publication a sign of a move forward?

    This kind of patent strikes me as a final touch and a message that they are getting ready

    no?

    Any thoughts on the meaning of this

  • Maverick

    It could mean anything, but I think that Aderans, Intercytex of someone else also patented a 6 foot machine with needles that can deliver a few hundred or thousand cloned follicles per minute.

  • CROMAN

    Maverick,can you explain me a few things:

    1)Who is Intercytex?

    )will Intercytex bring some cure for MPB in near future(2009-2010)

    you can send me on e-mail!

    Thanks anyway!

  • Maverick

    http://www.intercytex.com/icx/about/profile/

    I don´t believe that we will see a cure soon but there will be something by 2015 I hope. Nobody knows anything, every firm is secretive about their progress because a lot of money is on stakes here. First one that comes out with a treatment will take the cake, the rest will only follow.

  • The wizard

    Hello everyone,

    I dont mean to pee on anyone’s parade or bring anyone down. Its just I keep reading these disillusioned posters questions about “is a cure coming in a year or 2” !!!

    Although we are making progress, we have no idea how high of a mountain this is we are climbing almost until we are at the top(cure/treatment)

    To give some of you just a time frame punch in the arm. 10 years is a blink of an eye. Too many of you view it as some off in the futuristic realm imo

    just further sobering info. It is the 10th!!! anniversary of “WHO WANTS TO BE A MILLIONAIRE” FOR Christs sake

  • Maverick

    Wizard we don´t know nothing, everything is possible. The good thing is that there is a serious competition between at least 3 great firms so the race is on. 2015-2020 is a reasonable time frame.

  • OS

    F#@# ME!! why 10 YEARS!!! by THAT time frame ill be atleast 32 *IF* they ever find a cure :( 10 years of lonelyness and then what?! im 30 years old and bald …life is over..this is useless!!

  • Jx

    10 years are you high!

    DO YOU THINK FOLLICA JUST INVESTED IN A CEO AND PLANS NOT TO HAVE A PRODUCT FOR 10 YEARS HOW WOULD YOU SECURE FINANCE IF YOU WERENT GUARNTEEING A PRODUCT PRETTY SOON, IN CURRENT MARKETS THE FACT THEY STILL HAVE SECURE FINANCE SAYS TO ME THAT THEY INTEND TO SHOW THERE LOYAL INVESTORS A RETURN!

    Science 10 years ago is unrecognisable too today, and in 10 years science 20 years ago will be unrecognisable

    i get people being doubtful but spouting useless figures like 10 years should shut up
    you should consider use the internet as a benchmark to the progress that is being made in todays society

  • C

    It could be 1 year, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, whatever – no-one knows.

  • AA

    OS, people don’t get lonely due to them being bald alone. You should look into it.

  • happy1

    Use that grey thing between your ears.
    In the United States, Viagra was approved in less than 6 months of its application to the Food and Drug Administration.

    Think for a moment what will happen once a viable treatment for hair loss is discovered.

  • metsie

    Agreed AA
    Vanity is not everything. It just may seem like everything to the twenty something whipper snappers.

  • The wizard

    OS proved my point!

    A comment from me sent him into a tailspin.
    also this Jk guy is exactly the type of guy with this 10 year futuristic scenario.

    He sounds like in the massive expanse of 10 years we will guaranteed have a cure and all be wearing the same single piece advanced society suits.

    all I was trying to do was once again not have people put all their mental sanity eggs in this cure is a year or two away basket because you will be disappointed.

    and in regards to viagra..that was being pushed by how much money? thats big pharm whom gets whatever it wants unsafe or not.!! look at all the known harmful drugs currently on the market ffs

    follica is a small start up and even with all the possible money it could make(if it works) it will be held up in trials etc for a while.

    SO ENOUGH OF that. hope everyone has a good day but just step back and re-evaluate and be ready for the possibility that in 10 years we will still be discussing the next possible hopes for a cure.

  • JimQ

    # metsie
    7/21/09 4:03 pm

    Agreed AA
    Vanity is not everything. It just may seem like everything to the twenty something whipper snappers.
    —————————————-
    And if you are a 20-something, trying to get dates either in a bar or on a dating site, being prematurely bald is a HUGE setback.
    Those with massive amounts of confidence to begin with will overcome it with ease. The rest of us, especially those who were insecure to start with, have a much more difficult time.

  • AA

    I am a twenty something whipper snapper.

  • A

    Balding in ya 20’s sucks, its how you handle it that determinds how far youll go.

  • R

    Grow up whining bitches. Your hair is not the whole package and you can find happiness if you just be yourself and show confidence. You need to understand that something is coming but not today or the next 4 years so live and get laid. You people act like no one will screww you because your al bald. Circus people get laid so get F*&^()*. IT wil come so stop crying like little girls. Workout and live.

  • washington

    (not today or the next 4 years.. if you think this, because she always speaks that the cure this next one? next, but not before 5 years? I do not believe that it has taken as much time. in the maximum in 2013 already we will have aderans in the dermatological clinics… in the maximum in 2013. it does not only ask to me in which continent.

  • OS

    I have to agree, none of you know how it is to be bald at the age of 21!! so to all of you there that think they know better::: ,,|,, -_-
    grow-up, i wasnt insulting any of you so stop trying to lecture and throw shit at everyone who isnt just as happy as you would like, its is not easy as it is, i dont need you to tell me that im vain, stupid, low-life or whatever crap you already throw at me, i know what i worth and insulting me wont change anything other then give you a little ego boost for trying to lower ones selfasteem (as if as its not low enough already)..

  • KKwilliams

    Os

    Look on the bright side if u can. although you have it hard right now you have more of your life ahead of you.

    so if a cure comes in even 10 years you will still be young!!!

    you could still live a happy life :)

  • Metsie

    Sounds like some of you would psych yourselves out even if you had a full head. Mine was so gradual nobdy really noticed until my 30’s so I cant relate that way. But this cursing the sun moon and stars is just creating this very negative chi that women can sense in a heartbeat. If a cure is never found, dont worry, by your 30’s the playing field is leveled and women look past the superficial and just just want someone to settle down with and look past the shiny cranium. Ok enough of this Dr. Ruth crap.

  • A

    lol man come on. Lets just let the future do what the future will do, hairloss will be cured one day im sure, and you know that Histogen is bringing something out for the USA atleast by 2015 (Earlier Elsewhere) So atleast you know that you will have SOMETHING even if not the definitive cure.

  • A

    And for everyone wanting to know.

    Saturday July 25th From 12:20 – 12:30 is when Histogen will be presenting there Science and Early Clinical Data on Regenica for Hairloss at the ISHRS Summit. So i guess by this weekend those pictures and information we been waiting for will be available to dissect.

  • R

    I started balding at age 20…so I know the horrors of this mess and still hate and despise hairloss. So yes, I understand and sorry for the ranting. I went through major depression and never wnat any of you to suffer the same fate. I realized that everyone that looked at me didn’t care about my hair loss and women still hit on me due to me being a solid and funny person that they admired.

    Hairloss is stressful but a cure or viable treatment is coming. Avoid the mistake I made with making it part of your life (every waking moment) because to everyone around you it trully doesn’t matter. You will be suprised how people gravitate to you when you show confidence.

    Now…Histogen stated 2015 and Follica should be slightly sooner or around the same time. Mercola may be doing some of the experiment on the back of the head and is a NW6. Also, the pixie dust people that grew fingers are experimenting on hair loss. So we need to stay focused on maintaining our hair and accepting that our personalities are more important. Don’t get HT’s ( Iregret IT) and try to avoid propecia but if you use it…try .5 mg as it has shown to work as good in some studies without the side effects.

    Again…I was wrong to outburst in the past and I am sorry but just don’t want anyone to worry as I did and lose a part of your life that nobody cared about in the first place. Trust me…I have been balding for 20 years and it never hampered me with anyone or women even when they know about the HT’s. Its the personality, confidence and honesty that attracts women and I am considred handsome but many people not so handsome have great looking women so please live and watch your life blossom without the need for a full head of hair.

    P.S. Billions will be made from a good hair loss treatment or cure so this will be the motivating approach to a viable solution.

  • Artista

    Thanks for your very poignant and reflective insight R. Hopefully the younger guys here that are going thru so much stress over MPB will take heed your words. Metsie keep the ‘Ruth crap’ coming as well. As A said, we will have MUCH to dissect after the ISHRS Summit. Looking forward to it. How about you ZZ? Hey maybe we should all have a summit meeting too.More in lined with coastal waters and women of course.

  • A

    Your an alright dude R.

  • Metsie

    Just trying to keep the kiddies from losing their shit over MPB. Their is so much to see so much to do in this world to let it ruin their lives. It does add a challenge no doubt, but they can either be motivated by that and move on or get beat down crawl in a hole.
    NBC segments,Patents,new CEO’s, comments from the companys themselves,they may be on to something. “Dream the impossible dream, to fight the unbeatable foe”
    This has been another Dr. Ruth crap segment.

  • ZZ

    I am very much looking forward to the info that will flow from the ISHRS Summit. No guarantees of course but there should be some interesting updates. Check out all of the topics that will be covered at http://www.ishrs.org/PDF/Prelim02_2009ASM_FULL.pdf

    It sure gives you the impression that there are literally armies of people at work on this.

  • Maverick

    According to this .pdf file stem cell research or any kind of advanced hair treatment clearly isn´t the main topic of the meeting, on the contrary it looks like it is completely indifferent.

  • A

    Im actually interested in seeing the results of the Phase III Dutaseride study they did. But if you look again there is a chunk of time dedicated to stem cells, PRP and future treatment options like HM.

  • Maverick

    Dutasteride is bigger poison than finasteride. I am personally not interested in it, they can say what they want but we all know the facts about it. Until something big comes from Histogen, Follica, Aderans or someone else we can all just kiss our asses. :(

  • JS

    Follica are our best hope IMO. All the others seem to be jumping on Follica’s bandwagon using wounding. I doubt we’ll see much from this meeting.

  • Maverick

    Aderans is in the game too. They are using advanced Intercytex technology and Intercytex actually grew hair so they might do something too. What I really think is that they are not even trying hard to get that treatment so quick. They are making enough money on FUE or similar techniques, but if everyone would hit a boycott on HT´s and Propecia that would make them do something.

  • A

    Im aware of Dutaseride being worse then Propecia, however i am interested to see the Clinical Data of the Phase III Trial for that drug so i will be watching that closely.

    Oh a side note, Histogen if they can provide a good showing on Saturday will make me a very happy man. Remembering that these pictures are only a safety trial whatever regrowth they can unlock will be awesome because the Phase trials will be all about increasing dosage once they establish a good safety profile. Then things will get interesting.

  • Artista
  • e=mc2

    My thoughts precicely Maverick, i see this convention has a meeting of hair transplant specialists not a group of people aiming at destroying there profession.

    If anything there needs to be purely a meeting for allthose working on treatments, a step away from archaic procedures.

    Follica is not present at this convention, am i right>

    If a company had anything truely astounding i doubt they would wait for a conference in Amersterdam they would launch there own press conference and be being interviewed alot.

    Histogen need support and this moves shows they need to gain the support of the larger hair restoration community aswell its acceptance, as they are almost certinaly looking for series A & B financing. Presenting at the ISHRS give the company credability over all the sham products you dont see at this conference.

    Follica appear to be extremely confident, confident enought to secure excess finance and employ more staff, they dont need press attention neither do they seem to want it, they have employed a ceo who isnt cheap, and have done a human trial, as was confimrmed by Zohan which unconfirmed to us should have been completed in April.

    I prefer tere silence, as although it creates restlesness it convey to me at least confidence. I imagine they will keep is hooked with anpther snippet of information in the 4th quarter of this years

  • ZZ

    I have a little bit different perspective about new treatments & the HT field. There is no doubt some percentage of HT specialists who do not want change and there are no doubt some who will be driven out of business by a game changing treatment. But absent a pill that will suddenly regrow all of your hair (which isn’t a remote possibility anywhere in the forseeable future), I think there will be plenty of work available for those trained in this industry. In fact, with the possibile options that are currently on the drawing board, I think the market could even expand. I believe the histogen and follica types of treatments will require an in-office procedure to wound the scalp and perform the procedure…..even if there are follow up applications that can be performed at home. It would be reasonable to assume that an HT specialist would make less $$ per procedure but do many more procedures. So I think there will be at least some of this business that will simply be re-directed. It is also possible that a Histogen/Follica type of procedure would have to be repeated every 2-3 years. If there is an Intercytex/Aderans type of treatment where hair follicles will be cloned and have to be implanted, I think this could greatly expand the market for HT specialists. I am sure there are many who are currently not HT candidates b/c of the lack of donor hair on the sides. I am also sure that there are many who would never consider an HT (me included) b/c I could never get the type of solid coverage I would want unless there was an unlimted supply of donor hair. So I don’t think a great treatment spells doom and gloom for the industry and I have talked to several reputable people in the industry who are very excited about all of this. Aderans, who is in the HT business, would have to be nuts to pour the time, money and energy into a solution that would put them out of business.

  • 20something

    Obviously as money and time continue to pass newer and better treatments will emerge, in respsonse to the following debate i found this:

    “In addition, when ISHRS members were asked what they thought would be the next technological leap in hair restoration, 61 percent indicated the future of hair restoration would include cloning/stem cells/follicular cell transplantation. Currently being studied as an option for treating hair loss by increasing a person’s amount of donor hair, hair cloning is the popular term applied to the very active field of regenerative science research involved with the development of cell-based hair transplants. The concepts behind this developing biotech field are to harvest cells from the scalp in much the same manner as follicular grafts are currently obtained and to then grow and expand those cells in tissue culture conditions to produce more hair-forming cells. From this stage, there are a number of variations being investigated as to which cells can be used and where these cells can be used in the follicular development pathway.

    “Although these exciting technologies are still several years away from being available to hair loss patients, a number of clinical trials have already begun to explore this possibility,” said Dr. Parsley. “Clearly, our survey shows that people are not willing to simply accept their hair loss and are increasingly turning to hair restoration procedures as a permanent solution. As more new technologies become available in the future, I expect this trend will continue”

  • Maverick

    ZZ cloned follicles would be implanted by a machine. There is already a patent for that. 6 feet tall machine with thousands of needles who can deliver many follicles in very short time. That will reduce surgeons time and cost of his procedure and they don´t like that. I wonder why is Rassman “hair multiplication and duplication” moderator, he is a great surgeon but I don´t know that he is involved in any kind of hair multiplication research, not to mention that he is more than once caught even not to be “up to date” to this new technologies and he is telling everyone that new approach will be at least 10 years away.

  • Jim

    “Although these exciting technologies are still several years away from being available to hair loss patients…”

    To me thats all I need to see. Great news for kids in the future, really bad news for us. There’s something perverse about waiting until you are old to look young.

  • ZZ

    20something, Is there a link where you are getting those updates from the ISHRS?

    Maverick, Interesting I had not heard of that but personally I don’t think I would ever let a robot anywhere near my head. The HT group should lobby against the roboot. An unlimited supply of donor hair would then mean a lot more billable grafts!

    Jim, I’m older, married w/ kids and the word “several” sounds pretty good to me. Losing your hair is not a pleasant experience at any age.

  • JimQ

    ZZ 7/23/09 7:53 pm

    20something, Is there a link where you are getting those updates from the ISHRS?

    Maverick, Interesting I had not heard of that but personally I don’t think I would ever let a robot anywhere near my head. The HT group should lobby against the roboot. An unlimited supply of donor hair would then mean a lot more billable grafts!

    Jim, I’m older, married w/ kids and the word “several” sounds pretty good to me. Losing your hair is not a pleasant experience at any age.
    ———————————-
    Oh, I don’t doubt that, and if thats the way you took it, I apologize.

  • R

    New aresenal to attack baldness by a Japanese firm with an initial low/none safety issue. Like I said the bandwagon is growing with greater momentum.

    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/158489.php

  • A

    Several years could be anywhere from 2 – 10 years and that seems pretty realistic too me.

  • A

    R, what the hell is that. lol. Its weird to see a company finishing Phase I when no one has ever heard of them, do you what role this drug will play or is it just your guess is as good as mine? LOL

  • Maverick

    “Several years could be anywhere from 2 – 10 years and that seems pretty realistic too me.”

    2-4 is few

    5-10 is several

    that´s my view

  • R

    Don’t know! I just stumbled on the report and I believe many companies (to avoid bombardment) of callers and hair loss suffers will not disclose their science until they have something. It’s funny that Luna did not show an increase in interest or report additional updates on their antioxident discovery back in March 08. Many are working on this and may come from left field, but a field for all of us to prosper. This is interesting and good news as it brings another pathway to tackle hair loss.

  • rev

    I emailed Luna in March. They told me they were working on a product prototype but at that point in time they were not discussing human trials.

    Last I heard, however, Luna was sued, and forced to pay $36million in damages to Hansen Medical

  • Metsie

    Within 5 years, thats what I’m going by. Unless its posted or quoted otherwise, within 5 years. With all the activity going on, thats a very fair #.

  • Artista

    I’m in full agreement with Metsie. WITHIN a five year period there will be some type of treatment that will put an end to the drugs now on the market.

  • Metsie

    That was quoted from Dr. C himself. Its a great idea to go the natural approach until that time as R and others suggest. Artista, if you go through with a HT I will have to kick your ass. LOL
    I wonder if Histrogen was seen as ‘the enemy’ at that conference.

  • Jim

    # Metsie
    7/24/09 11:35 am

    That was quoted from Dr. C himself. Its a great idea to go the natural approach until that time as R and others suggest. Artista, if you go through with a HT I will have to kick your ass. LOL
    I wonder if Histrogen was seen as ‘the enemy’ at that conference.

    ————————————–
    Histogen says 2015, at least for US customers.
    Didn’t “Dr. C” say 2004 and 2008 also?

  • Artista

    LOL Mets’
    Yea i guess your right. I will say that when i first came onto this site i was VERY close to having my first HT. But since then i have become a lot more educated (thanks to this site and to furthered research) I feel comfortable to wait it out. So no HTs any time soon.(don’t need my ass kicked either) We shall see developments upcoming in this new type of hair treatment. Another note, i realize that there is a whole new market out there of doctors who specialize in cleaning up donor site scarring and bad HT/fues. Yikes ,Ive been stung ENOUGH by Murphy’s Law to know anything can go wrong.

  • Metsie

    Within 5 years & 2015 at least.
    Those are simply peanuts being thrown to the monkeys. Just padded #’s to keep the public from hounding them to no end. Granted nobody knows for sure, but add a new CEO to the mix and a growing staff,then “within 5 years” sounds pretty fair.

  • Metsie

    2004, 2008 ??? Please advise as to where “DR.C” or anybody from Follica was quoted as saying something will be available by then.

  • WASHINGTON

    5 YEARS…and has people finding fast? 5 years? they are being crazy. 5 years it is an eternity, still more when expects some thing… what it happened with all colloquy of follica, aderans, intercytex?

  • Maverick

    Intercytex is practically Aderans. Phase I performed by Intercytex took Aderans and they are now performing Phase II(even more advanced type than Intercytex). Intercytex had completed Phase II since april 2008 and they are not intending even to start a phase III without a partner. They are out of cash, and are going down like a Titanic. If you ask me I think that Intercytex is out of the race.

  • ZZ

    From a number of articles I have read, I believe Dr. C has the highest of integrity and is very conservative. When pressed in an interview early this year, below is the only speculation about a time line that I have seen from him. (The NBC piece referred to a timeline but that was the reporter speaking) Note the words “It is impossible to know for sure”.

    “Without pinning himself to a timeline, the good doctor’s estimate for Follica’s treatment looks very possible for launch within the next five years. “It’s impossible to know for sure, but within the next several years — two to three — there’ll be a trial where we’ll use a procedure with the compound to see if it works in humans,” says Cotsarelis. “There will be the usual regulatory stuff after that, so perhaps in four to five years we’ll have something we can offer people.”

    It’s been a bear of a week. I’m off to enjoy a few stiff drinks with friends and what little hair I have left.

    Here’s hoping for some encouraging (whatever that personally means to each of you)news tomorrow from Histogen. Enjoy your weekend!

  • A

    Think of it this way, David And Victoria Beckham have been together 10 years, Who wants to be a millionair has been on the air 10 years. Even more recent its been 7 years since i been to school LOl. Time waits for no one and 5 years before you k now it will be gone. I wish 5 years was an eternity but reality is that its really not long at all.

  • The wizard

    A,

    You just stole my who wants to be a millionaire 10 year post from a few days back!! you bugger :)

    I def agree. So many guys on here are to blind to the reality of how short of a timeframe 10 years really is,

    I am curious to anyone who may know however. Do we have unlimited or massive amounts of unused stem cells in which we can play around with?

    If so I am tempted to raise some cash and have a lab do whatever is needed to my stem cells and then have them injected as so many of these hopeful treatments are doing. what would be the harm? also may look to getting in on a trial somewhere.

    also,
    any of you guys close to cracking DONT get an HT!! I regret mine so much and it was done with the top doc and all that.

    Hair looks obviously different and not close to normal density. I may have all the ht stuff laserd out. at least that way Im just losing my hair guy..NOT oh look at that ht!

  • R

    The Internet gives much information and many of us with HT’s never had this medium. You are fortunate so heed our warnings. Wait and don’t bitch as it will come buut never at your time. So why bitch and complain as it will always be out of your control unless you become the scientist. That is all, now wait and be pleased of all the science and attention surrounding these breakthroughs from multiple companies.

    Again, No HT’s and no drugs…try the natural route or just shave closely. You will thank me when you are more mature and older and see that it does not matter to the women.

  • A

    lol sorry wizard i was wondering why that line was in my head to be honest i knew it was from somewhere but i had no idea who or what, so once again :) Im sorry.

    To be honest with you guys i was looking into HT, and still am if nothing is on the horizon for 10 years, that is just an honest assessment. Im sure i wont go through with it but the thought is there.

  • R

    Everyone here was warned and if you decide to pursue please only balem yourself. It’s a shame that people’s arrogance never seem to understand that many have been to the best and still regret the procedure. Please look at the informercials and witness two things

    1. The patients are always in dim lighting

    2. Those that are not have (MUCH) resident hair to offset/hide the transplants.

    Please review what I say and look the informamercials. If you still want to pursue the surgery route, you will regret it like many of the others and also, you need to get repeated procedures and need to take some form of pill or drug to stop or slow down the resident loss of hair.

    Again…do IT and you will sorry!!! Please don’t listen to me people as you know without even ever having the surgery. Childess remarks and behavior will cost you big time.

    Bosley is waiting!!!

  • Maverick

    So any updates from ISHRS?

  • A

    No no R, im not doing a HT i just said i was entertaining the possibility but chances are i wont do it. Like all of us i will be waiting out the storm.

  • KKwilliams

    So nothing mind blowing from this conference? no surprise to me.

    told you guys not to get so hyped. 5 years is the earliest we will have any new even half a$$ed treatment available

    sucks to be us

  • Artista

    KK, the conference is ONGOING. Your ‘i told you so’ is a bit premature. It seems you wanted to be the FIRST one to say that.Why ??

  • KKwilliams

    Unless Im mistaken it was over on the 26. My post was after it ended.

    either way I have no agenda, and there was no attempt for me to be the first to say I told you so.

    The thread was merely quiet and I just wanted to reiterate my point of us all realizing we have to actually wait!! not a few days or a week. actually wait.

    even if some good news pops up it cant be taken with such excitement.

    I have no doubt before we see a cure this roller coaster will continue and we will no doubt see a few more hedgehog ru5881 disasters before we see a cure.

    ALL im trying to do is caution some people so they dont get severely depressed after setbacks occur.

  • ZZ
  • Artista

    Thanks ZZ,
    “84.6% of the patients receiving one injection of Histogen’s serum-free HSC showed an increase in terminal hair 12 weeks post-injection, with a statistically significant (p<0.05) increase in the number of terminal hairs, cumulative hair thickness density and hair thickness mean. Perturbation did not enhance the results seen with HSC. There were no adverse reactions seen in any of the treated 24 patients at baseline, 12 weeks, or the 22 week endpoint.”
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    That is with ONLY ONE injection of the HSC under a controlled lab test environment and timeline. Just the beginning. Of course there are other experiments going on currently that we have yet to hear about.

  • Maverick

    Artista, Intercytex had 100% hair growth rate with prestimulation of the scalp but those hairs were esthetically unacceptable and they never gave photos to the public(and I doubt that they ever will). What matters is how thick those hairs are(everything under 60 microns is too thin), do hairs look natural and the most important thing is are those hairs DHT resistant? will they last?

  • Artista

    Maverick i concur with what you say.
    You make a solid commonsense point but keep in mind that not that long ago hair regeneration wasn’t a consideration. Especially to us laymen. Now Intercytex has actually REGROWN hair albeit not at a satisfactory level,,YET. DHT resistance is of course a serious matter.Id hate to think that we would need to use chemical supplements. Especially with what we know about todays products.

  • ZZ

    The press release is positive, especially considering this was only 1 injection, however it does not appear to disclose much more than we learned from the 12 week midpoint assessment. The really great news is that the wnt protein component of the compound appears safe and that should be positive news for Follica as well.

    I am hoping that Gail Naughton’s interview that is scheduled to be published in the official journal of the ISHRS will give us some better detail. I am assuming that took place in Amsterdam and that it will be posted on Histogen’s web site soon.

    By the way, does anyone know what it means when they say: ” a statistically significant (p<0.05) increase in the number of terminal hairs" Does that mean a 5% increase? The information to the right in the press release appears to show a 24-27% increase in terminal hairs.

  • Artista

    Another thing to note is Histogen’s clinical pics. There is absolutely signs of hair density and growth. The safety issue seems to be good as you pointed out ZZ which is key to preliminary trials. This is the beginning steps guys.

  • ZZ

    Below is the update on the ISHRS presentation of the clinical trial as posted on Histogen’s website:

    http://www.histogeninc.com/aboutus/news_events.htm#23

  • Dave

    ZZ,
    I pretty sure the (p<0.05) is saying that the stats “24-27% increase in terminal hairs” is 95% accurate. A 95% accuacy rate is very good.

  • Artista

    thanks ZZ,hey I’m looking forward to that interview too.

  • ZZ

    Thanks Dave That’s good to know. Also, did you guys notice that the pics are still the 12 week pics (3 months) rather than from the 5 month end point?

  • AM

    ZZ,

    I think p<0.05 means that there is a 95% correlation between application of HSC to hairgrowth. How much hairgrowth, is another question altogether.

    The 24-27% increase isn’t particularly pertaining to the statistics, if I remember my stats correctly.

  • A

    The pictures are different, well they are the same pictures but different timeframe you can definitely see more hairs at the end of the trial then at the midway point. Im Enthused but i guess we need to see phase I results when they test with a higher strength syrum to see what results it will be resonable to expect.

  • washington

    Sorry, but, I do not see nothing of new in these images. we will not have nothing of histogen before aderans, follica or intercytex…

  • rev

    I don’t get it.. amongst a crowd including aderans, intercytex, and follica this is the first and only company that’s provided us with human photos AND a timeline of 2015, yet you’re still cheering for intercytex… a company whose HM project was unsuccessful, and is now DEAD.

    Sheesh some folks.

  • OS

    yay 2015!!

  • rev

    Would you prefer NEVER?

  • Metsie

    Those pictures are not new of course not. Did you expect them to march into that conference and say Hi, were Histrogen we are going to put all of you out of business with our new approach. These are our most up to date pictures. I sure hope Follica is watching so they can see our progress.
    NOO!!! Of course not, they went to the conference as a side show, a look at the future, sometime by 2015 this should be available.Wether or not that date is correct we & follica have no idea.

  • OS

    2015 = never for me, out of my effective life-time ill be around 30 by then, i want to date girls my age! at 30 girls dont care if your bald!

  • rev

    No, but at 30 you’ll care that you’re BALD.

  • washington

    accurate. histogen did not show to nothing of photos or images, because it does not have nothing to show. follica still this working, aderans also, and had shown something, when they will have something, histogen did not show a photo of a smooth head being born hair… showed photos, that can be obtained with finasteride… thicker hair…

  • JimQ

    # OS
    7/28/09 10:20 am

    2015 = never for me, out of my effective life-time ill be around 30 by then, i want to date girls my age! at 30 girls dont care if your bald!
    # rev
    7/28/09 10:51 am

    No, but at 30 you’ll care that you’re BALD.

    ——————————————–
    At 30 some do and some don’t just like at 20. A friend of mine’s mother is over 45, and she prefers not to date bald guys. A little bit of a receding hairline is ok, NW7 is not. And she’s not some shallow idiot either. Quite average, I would say.

  • Maverick

    Well some of mine friends don´t want to date a girl with small breasts or brunettes, blonds, redheads, tall ones, short ones, fat ones, slim ones, black, white etc. They are not shallow either but they say that they don´t have a “thing” for every woman. Some women like bald men some don´t and that´s the way it is. You can put a price on your car in any amount you want, but for how much you are going to sell it is another story. I hope you will understand this.

  • OS

    Try shaving your head like a nw6 and come on a 19 years old girl and see your “some like this some like that” theory in action…..

  • Maverick

    “Try shaving your head like a nw6 and come on a 19 years old girl and see your “some like this some like that” theory in action…..”

    If I was a NW6 I would have shaved it all off. Personally I prefer older girls not those immature ones and I do not complain about my success. My friend, if a girl doesn´t like me the way I am then I´ll rather stay alone then beg her like a looser, but at first place I will start looking for another one. Think of this, you marry her while you have a full head of hair, you get bald and she hates it more than you, she finds a lover and the story goes… divorce, potential alimony, lost a house etc. or being rejected at the beginning and all this is avoided. The one who really likes you will love you with your hair or without it, and that one you can marry. To tell you the truth my friend has a very beautiful wife and daughter and he has alopecia universalis no hair at all, no eyebrowns, nothing, smooth like a seal.

  • Maverick
  • R

    Consistency and a continuous pursuit to achieve a hair loss remedy is working. Women don’t care about hair (the real ones that matter) so live. We are seeing progress beyond yesteryear.

  • J

    Follica is the one to wait for…..i think a viable treatment will be here sooner than later. I pray………….

  • R

    Look…Histogen is showing and progressing at a greater rate compared to Follica due to not having to wound the candidate. Histogen is moving faster with results and I believe that we will see more news on Histogen due to the ease of use. 2015 was predicted and we will see others tailor that time frame within a couple of years before or after.

  • James
  • rev

    meh. Let me put it to you this way, if Dr. Rassman could marry Propecia he would.

  • Maverick

    Those HT vampires are all very affraid for they jobs.

  • JimQ

    # rev
    7/30/09 8:39 am

    meh. Let me put it to you this way, if Dr. Rassman could marry Propecia he would.
    ————————————-
    Kickbacks dude. Its all about kickbacks.

  • Artista

    What i read in that Rassman link was a topic about CLONING. Correct me if I’m wrong but i don’t believe CLONING is the main focus of discussion among the stated companies here.

  • Metsie

    Its not what he said but what he didn’t say. His job is on the line. Think of how much money they are losing right now by just the people here educating themselves and not getting HT’s just yet.

  • Shooter

    Hahaha, I looked up the “panel of experts” that Dr. Rassman moderated at the ISHRS conference in July. Bessam Farjo (hair transplant doc working with ICX), Takashi Hirayama (no idea), Damkerng Pathomvanich (no idea), Coen Gho (independent scientist that has been working on HM for 10+ years). If THOSE guys are 10 years away, I’d have to hope that maybe more qualified teams like Follica and Histogen are slightly closer. I could be wrong, I just hate Dr. Rassman. Knowing that ICX clinical trials failed is old news. If he was talking about Aderans that would suck, but they are only like 3-4 months in to their trials so they probably didn’t report anything at the conference, even though Washenik was there.

  • R

    Bravo people. Spread the word and no HT’s…this will require all the HT Doctors to subscribe to alternative methods, especially if it requires them to initiate the wounding or product. No HT doctor want’s a cure or believe the Internet is a good thing. They are losing money because people are communicating and warning about drugs and surgery and everyone involved knows its better to wait or accept fate of lost $$$$$ and bad HT’s or Gyno!!! Please continue the fight to warn and show evidence to stop surgey and inferior products. This is the only way to stop these F%^&* up mills.

    Rassman and the others are people that will down play innovation until they are ready to retire.

  • A

    Dr. Pathomvanich is a HT doctor is Thailand who invented the Trichlosure method, basically the Scar you have after a HT is basically invisible when using this method, that in itself is a big breakthrough, but i do agree Cloning may still be awhile away. Regrowth through Dermabrassion is not as long as we all think.

  • appleman

    I had a scar revision done with the trichophytic closure. It worked fairly well. I am still awaiting a treatment from follica though to basically get a whole new head of hair. I’m not really balding but my hair grows in very weird and uneven due to an extensive surgery I had when I was younger. It sucks, you guys are all here complaining cause you are losing your hair prematurely, but I haven’t had a regular head of hair since I was 2 years old. I have never known what it feels like to have a “normal” head of hair. Try putting yourself in my shoes. I hope follica comes out with a treatment so people like me and burn victims/others with deformities of the scalp can experience a bit of normalcy in our lives.

  • Shooter

    Appleman, fantastic bit of perspective there. I also hope Follica works out for you. Your post is exactly why I hate Dr. Rassman (and others like him) so much. They are committed to nothing but the status-quo and scoff at any innovation. Clearly the status quo has not solved your problem, and if left up to Rassman, your problem would never be solved.

    It’s voices like yours that need to be heard by the people at Follica/Histogen/Acell. If your testimony doesn’t encourage them to work faste/be more open with the public, I’m quite sure nothing will (and that includes financial incentives).

  • OS

    appleman, your post touched me! i feel for you dude, im apose to you, had to adapt to how i look from when i was born, and then when i finally could find some comport i get that bald head, that mean i have to RE-ADAPT, and tbh, i dont think i can do it, neve ever… i hope we will get something, you could have a *normal life* (whatever normal means in our shallow society) and i can restore my lost life.

  • Artista

    Thank you for your input here Appleman. It can be therapeutic for all concerned when sharing a different perspective on issues in life. I cant wait for the day in which we can all be a bit more comforted.

  • Metsie

    Its disconcerting to see some of these brats by choice do whatever they can to look different. Then you hear others that would give anything just to look normal because of reasons beyond their control.
    Appleman thank you for that bitch-slap into reality.

  • Rx

    Appleman- where did you get the scar fixed? Meaning what doctor..

  • appleman

    I got it done by a very well known plastic surgeon in the hair restoration circle by the name of Dr. James Vogel. He actually was one of the physicians that gave a presentation at the ISHRS conference this past weekend.

  • Rx

    Thank you Appleman. I checked out his site. He seems very legit. So you had a bigger scar in back that he was able to cut and then re-close and make smaller? I’d really appreciate any further info/experience you can provide. Thanks

  • Maverick
  • Artista

    No Maverick, it isn’t a hoax. It is still in its infancy though.

  • happy1

    Here’s the truth about acell. don’t fall for the hype:

    http://www.theskepticsguide.org/archive/podcastinfo.aspx?mid=2&pid=18

  • Artista

    Thanks happy1 i will definitely listen to that segment.

  • happy1

    Not trying to be a wet blanket. I was initially really excited about Acell it when it was first reported.

    The Skeptic’s guide to the universe podcasts are usually pretty spot on. I enjoy the perspective.
    There is suposedly another podcast called quack watch or something simular. It deals with de-bunking false medical claims. If anyone knows the link, please feel free to post it.

  • KKwilliams

    qq

  • Newbie

    http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v107/n6/abs/5610322a.html

    Can someone explain to me what that means exactly. It is an old study i think. 1996?

  • Artista

    Happy1 thanks again. I personally didn’t see you as a wet blanket to share as you did. When i first heard of Acell’s ‘finger’ news i was skeptical. It seemed to me, after researching the claim to be legit. Especially after seeing it discussed on ‘respected’ programs, papers etc. I have yet to review the links but i will. I appreciate sites that offer differing views on all topics. If it turns out that the Acell claim is less than stated, i wouldn’t be surprised being that our American media has been in a slow degradation.

  • Maverick
  • Shooter

    Hey, I got some bad news on Follica, although it doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

    On the website for Penn Medicine I looked up the old article from 2007 about Cotsarelis’s discovery. There is an addition to the article dated June 2009 directly from Cotsarelis.

    “Thank you for your interest in my research. Rest assured that we are continuing our work on hair follicle stem cells and hair follicle regeneration in the hopes of better understanding hair growth and developing treatments for hair loss. The Follica website (http://www.follicabio.com/) will have information regarding upcoming clinical trials. We are not performing any clinical trials at this time.”

    If there are no trials, wtf is Ju and Zohar talking about?

    http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/may07/hair-follicle-regeneration.html

    I dunno, this really pissed me off. They can go F*** themselves for all I care. It’s not that there are trials or aren’t trials, it’s that noone in this goddamn company can give an honest answer.

    Cotsarelis says no trials, Ju says “the trial is ongoing, the trial is going well.” What in the hell are they studying? What in the hell were they talking about on NBC wen they said starting trials in the next “year or two”?

    Then you email the company and they don’t even answer back. The company is sitting on it’s ass DOING NOTHING for a year and half and they are concerned with “driving their research forward”? You have got to be kidding me. All of this waiting for nothing… wow…

  • Shooter

    For the record, regarding Acell: I called Dr. Hitzig (doctor that claims to have used Acell to regrow hair in the donor areas of patients) awhile back. He seemed like a nice guy and told me he’d send me pictures of his procedure as proof that it worked. He told me he tried a bunch of things and that if you take a punch graft out of the donor area, fill it in with Acell, and put like a Vaseline cover on it to keep it moist, eventually the hair grows back. Well, it’s been like 3 months and I still haven’t gotten any pictures. He said he’d talk to me next week on the phone again so whatever.

    Don’t at all get your hopes up. I’m pretty sure this guy (from his past history) is just looking for another way to scam us baldies. Figured I’d check it out just in case though.

    Btw, did I say f*** follica yet? Well, f*** follica. Upcoming clinical trials my ass… maybe in 10 years.

    Here is the part where I admit Rick was absolutely right. I believed the company’s b.s. and I shouldn’t have. Sorry guys. Just more academics adding to their resumes… like always.

  • OS

    Welcome to the real world Shooter! where we only believe what we see and dont take huge companies words for granted! Follica representors stated 3~ years for a cure when the company was formed… zero proof, zero information, nothing, they was the no1 at my list, if they couldn’t pull that off – no one will anytime soon, oh and the economic crisis isn’t helping us bladies either :/

  • A

    Atleast we still have Histogen and Aderans. Dont throw in the towel just yet fellas.

  • Shooter

    I liked Aderans, but I don’t understand why, 3 months after they start trials, they extend the timeline on their website. That is highly curious, and at this time I’m not willing to be optimisic whatsoever. I heard they are recruiting more people, and that is also suspicious. In either case, at least they are ABSOLUTELY, CERTIFIABLY in clinical trials… I’m betting on their catastrophic failure after several years of shady ICX-like results.

  • Metsie

    If you kids havent figured it out by now then you never will. Just because they wont tell you anything your going to cry in your pillows tonight. It must be a generation thing. You 20 somethings think your entitled to everything and patience is not tolerated. Enjoy your cry tonight, its all over. Follica has failed if you want to believe it.

  • Shooter

    Just more cursory information as I try and get to the bottom of this Follica debacle. The research study for alopecia has been taken off of the Harvard Skin Studies website. I don’t know what that means, except that they are probably finished with their first arbitrary, utterly useless, ridiculous waste of time “dermabrasion” experiment. Woo hoo… :(

    In another two years maybe they’ll be able to tell us what happens when you apply water to wounded skin.

    Way to go Follica… drive that research forward…

  • Shooter

    Metsie, it’s not that Follica has “failed.” It’s that they are making progress at a snail’s pace after touting the speed with which they would be able to conduct clinical trials and bring a product to market.

    It is dishonesty that makes me more mad than anything else.

  • Metsie

    Dude, sorry about the rant, but remember we’re talking about something possibly amazing in the works. A real cure / treatment for hairloss. I personally am giving them till this fall to hear or see something substantial in the way of progress. The “within 5 years” and CEO news was enough for me.

  • A

    If aderans higher more people for a trial isnt that a good thing, having 100s of people doing a phase II is better then having 50 people do it. More accurate results. Dont be so down. From a single injection of Histogen people on average had 20% more hair isnt that also something to watch for.

  • Maverick

    Aderans Phase II should be finished by the end of the 2009. We´ll know everything by then. If they fail then f*** them all.

  • R

    STOP STOP STOP! Nobody has failed and again they stated no trials at this time. They need to tweek their formula and work to secure greater leverage with investors and show proof of their work beyond the current model. Follica is moving forward and hired more people with varying backgrounds for a reason. They cannot disclose and will answer comments by getting people off their backs.

    Remember that serious auto accident victims have shown to regrow hair after having a close shave on their scalp when hair was not growing. You see soon enough that progress is being made. Remember to stop hair loss bullshit, you need to stop buying HT. Propecia and other products and make these people deliver a real product. They will never move fast enough if the consumer continues to be sold half ass products. Just wait and live.

  • The wizard

    WOW is all I can say to these latest outbursts. well that’s not entirely true.

    THE EVOLUTION OF THE BALDING MAN
    he starts out a normal person. notices hair loss. gets angry, depressed, scared, some decide to get on drugs while some get ht’s. then the balding man gets online.

    he starts out completely naive.Then he gets overly positive and hopeful consistently chiming in telling everyone that they need to stay positive that its almost over :) After too many setbacks and a few companies just failing he joins the cautious yet hopeful club…BUT a few more let downs and he ends up in the completely NEGATIVE zone constantly bashing new companies while deep down hoping they will work. ~THE END~

    do any of you guys invest financially in these companies? I highly doubt it
    they owe us nothing! The reporting was probably a bit overly optimistic but its up to you the supposed educated individual not to believe everything you read.

    Company “x” notices a few hairs grow unexpectedly during some procedure or treatment unrelated to hair growth.. then all of the sudden they yell cure and you all buy in 100%

    even follica ran off at the mouth to soon. yes there protocol seems to be the future but from the get go they had no idea to what extent this method could be tweaked and what kind of densities could be achieved.

    all we can do is wait and see. PERIOD.

    R is right. progress is being made so stop reading into everything and letting your paranoia run rampant and make baseless assessments of whats happening. U guys are like watching the microwave pop kernels. just wait and we will know more eventually. I dont mean a week or a month.

    WE MAY not have a real good idea of progress for a year so just chill already

  • Ocean

    Have you heard about this?

    http://akamat.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/losing-your-hair-try-sperm-shampoo/

    What’s your take on it?

  • The wizard

    I wonder…..

    its more b.s.

    “he starts out completely naive” -excerpt from the above narrative, THE EVOLUTION OF THE BALDING MAN, penned by yours truly.

    and dont worry. you dont need to worry about missing on on the magical cure just because you dont scour the internet or try every product claiming success. When something actually works and is on the market I guarantee you will be beaten to death with it in the mainstream news and herds of balding men knocking you over to buy it

  • Artista

    “…you don’t need to worry about missing (out) on the magical cure just because you don’t scour the internet or try every product claiming success” Thanks Wiz’
    A very commonsense and to the point response to the topic of ‘finding’ something on the web. Most are snake oil salesmen and con men.

  • Metsie

    People, as a “in the mean time” product any opinions of the laser comb? No one has ever mentioned it. Is it just another P.O.S. or could it really help until something much better shows up?

  • Stranger

    Hey Folks,

    Whoever it is , just don’t loose hope.. Nobody believed when Galileo said Earth is Round..

    You got to be kidding , just sitting outside and blaming some companies thats because they didn’t reply to your mail..

    Haven’t they showed their addition of new expert people in their team – which atleast tells progress is there..

    Here lets not fight / discourage others.. We shall share the findings & approach the companies – try to post it here when positive reply ( for sure ) is seen..

    Its not a preach , its a fact and yes – we will get the cure soon – very soon.. Hold on guys , just hold on.. People are listening , working..

  • JoJo

    # Stranger
    8/5/09 2:54 pm

    we will get the cure soon – very soon.. Hold on guys , just hold on

    —————-

    do you mean by the weekend ? If that’s the case, then I will believe it, but only because you are saying it

  • commonsense
  • friend in need

    hey guys, does anyone know if using nizoral for a long time can cause damage to your scalp? I thought I heard somewhere the using a medicated shampoo for longer than needed can cause damage…

    anyone know anything about that?

  • Artista

    I have heard similarly that there can be health issues related to Niz’ ‘Friend in need’
    Jo Jo ,,dont you think that was a little rude?

  • Metsie

    Ever work with people that cant stop bitching about their job? Everyday constant bitching, but everyday show up for work and never leave for a better position.
    Kind of reminds me of some of the devoted fans here. Keep praying and be sure to check up daily JoJo.
    Now copy and paste and add your 2 cents.

  • A

    There is no evidence that using Nizoral can be a bad thing for you. 1% seems to be very well tolerated, if anything it would be the 2% Version that may cause the problem but as yet only evidence is anecdotal. I guess everyone will respond differently, i been on 2% for 6 months now 2 – 3 times a week with no major problems.

  • Artista

    Hey ZZ, what are your thoughts at this time?

  • ZZ

    I’m just watching patiently. I was hoping for a little more info out of ishrs. I don’t think Histogen told us much more than we already knew from their midpoint release so I am looking forward to the interview that Naughton says will contain some points of interest for us. It was supposed to have been out by now. Personally, Follica’s silence doesn’t bother me. I think they have the most powerful research team and I think that is where we may see the first real night & day pics (in 2-3 years) in terms of results. I keep hearing about their short term projections that they haven’t met but I have never seen an estimated time line other than what was in the article this Jan/Feb which said 4 to 5 years. I think the June note on the research article mentioned above was nothing more than a redirection to Follica of inquiries generated by the article. One other point I like is that I believe William Ju went to Med school at Penn. I see that as a plus. I get the sense that anything associated with Cotsarelis is all about integrity.

  • Artista

    Thanks ZZ.
    Once again we are on the same page here. I too am being patient. I had hoped for more info than we had gotten from the ISHRS summit but I’m not surprised either. I can understand where there are some of those here that have been a bit reactionary. It can be AND IS a frustrating thing to say the least. But no one should be disheartened. We are at the cusp. I completely forgot about the upcoming Naughton interview so that reminder is refreshing to say the least.

  • ZZ

    Artista,

    What do you know about Ziering, the primary investigator on the Histogen trials?

    It strikes me that getting a consult from him on their non-sugical treatments, or otherwise lining up a relationship might put you in a little better position at being first in line for treatment if the Histogen complex makes it to market, especially if it were to become available in Europe a year or 2 before the US. He would certainly be in a position to know first hand about safety, effectiveness and where it might first be available. He has quite a resume and quite the website……maybe too good.

  • Ershath

    Guys…Pls help me,am 23 years old and i hav started losing hair…its herditery as most of my relatives in my father side and my father are bald…am not interested in going for any medication or HT now…Can i use Laser combs until a permenant solution from Follica or Histogen is avaliable…do i need a doctors priscription for buying one…?
    Also pls share ur experience if anyone of u had already used it…and do pls mention the manufacturers avaliable in the market…
    Thanks

  • Artista

    ZZ, you may know a bit more about Ziering than i. Ive been working so much these days that i find it hard to stay at this PC for very long to do any type of researching. I like your way of thinking on it though.
    Ershath, Haven’t heard a lot of squawking over the lasercombs lately. When they first came to market there were favorable reviews and no, you dont need a prescription. I wouldn’t bank too heavily on it being any type of ‘cure’ though. Your 23 so don’t panic. Im positive at your age you will see great things to come.

  • Ershath

    Thanks Arista…

  • ZZ

    Ershath,

    Try going to Zierings site and check out the section on laser treatments. He apparently thinks it has at least some positive value. I believe he is a consultant to 2 different laser companies. Also, I believe if you fill out the on-line form they will call you and give you a free consult.

    Good luck

  • OS

    Ershath, ill give you a reality check since these ppl dont know what they are talking about, i tried almost every treatment, the ones that might help are only propecia and minox they maybe slow you baldness abit , rare cases stop it, but bare in mind you might groe male boobs (ie gynokomaastia) and even develop importance, i wouldnt risk it, and now im bald and im almost 22 yo if its in youe genes, then its in your genes, try to enjoy the time with whatever you got left before its too late, and DONT waste money and time on hokus pokus combs and snake oils, nothing works, this site is alos full of sales men so you might want to go to forums to see the options, the one i recomand is propeciahelp, many good ppl there! just google (in one word),
    and dont get your hopes high about new treatments, its all bull shit like Follica, take care buddy!

  • R

    The only thing being sold here is patience. You are always better w/ natural products and acceptign your hair loss then pharma drugs any day. BTW….my natural approach has yield better results than pharma and you all have the website. No money comes back to me just my way of saying there is truth being healing the body. You may not get your hair back (unless just started losing hair) buut you will have a healthy body and mind. Nothing sold via prescription and or device works well enough or safe enough to warrant taken such actions.

  • m

    hey ersath,

    I’m with R, the natural methods are the best solutions. I’m in my early 20’s as well and started loosing hair in my late teens but since i’ve started taking much better care of my hair/body it has slowed significantly and I’m pretty sure there has been some regrowth.

    Every day I take a multivitamin, vitamin b complex, and omega 3-6-9 complex as well as using nizoral 2 or 3 times a week.

    In addition to the vitamins I drink a glass of vegetable juice every day, a glass of 100% grape juice and have a big spinach salad with lots of tomatoes, carrots, peppers, black beans and garbanzo beans every day.

    Basically I have been eating a lot of green vegetable and eating healthy and trying not to stress about my hair so much and it has worked very well.

    Just remember personality is the main thing you need to get women or just attract people/friends.

    Hope that helps man, good luck

  • Ershath

    Thank u everyone…

  • ZZ

    R, Do you use emu oil as recommended on the MPB site? I found it interesting to note that Ziering (I was checking him out since he is the Histogen investigator)has several natural treatments listed on his site that he says are promising.

  • Oceans
  • Ershath

    Green tea does it really help in slowing down balding…?
    also mixing lemon to it leads to better absorption…does it really work…?

  • R

    I have tried EMU-Oil and believe it is too messy and smells really bad to be used daily and productively. I would suggest the following asit works for me who has been balding for 20 years and regrowing hair in areas that have bald for such time.

    Green Tea Extract 725 mg / Now started Teaflavins (black tea extract) 350 mg
    Curcumin 450 mg
    Reservatrol 250 mg
    Multi-Vitamin that contains 1000mg Vit. D3
    Vitiman C 1000 mg

    Now gives this a two year try…yes two years as you need a long-time to see results. Also this will make you healthier.

  • ZZ

    Thanks R

  • Artista

    yes, Thank you R ,will add it to the regimen

  • Squadoosh

    R,

    I’m a true newbie when it comes to those supplements. Do you take them all in capsules?

  • be happy now

    One day a father of a very wealthy family took his son on a trip to
    the country with the firm purpose of showing his son how poor people
    live.
    They spent a couple of days and nights on the farm of what would be
    considered a very poor family.
    On their return from their trip, the father asked his son, “How was
    the trip?”
    “It was great, Dad.”
    “Did you see how poor people live?” the father asked.
    “Oh yeah,” said the son.
    “So, tell me, what did you learn from the trip?” asked the father.!
    The son answered: “I saw that we have one dog and they had four.
    We have a pool that reaches to the middle of our garden and they have
    a creek that has no end.
    We have imported lanterns in our garden and they have the stars at
    night.
    Our patio reaches to the front yard and they have the whole horizon.
    We have a small piece of land to live on and they have fields that go
    beyond our sight.
    We have servants who serve us, but they serve others.
    We buy our food, but they grow theirs.
    We have walls around our property to protect us, they have friends to
    protect them.”
    The boy’s father was speechless.
    Then his son added, “Thanks, Dad, for showing me how poor we are.”

    Isn’t perspective a wonderful thing? Makes you wonder what would
    happen if we all gave thanks for everything we have, instead of
    worrying about what we don’t have.

  • KKwilliams

    be happy now,
    nice story but and im sure some ppl may find it enlightening but imo its crap.

    You can extend that to someone who is blind. and he should say “at least I can hear”

    The man with one leg ” at least I have my hands”

    the very poor person “at least I have my health”

    The reality is all those scenarios are b.s.!! Just ways to deluding yourself into going on pretending you’re blessed and not really Fucckked(no disrespect to any of those real life people)

    The reality is this blows so hard and I for one am not just going to say it doesnt bother me and make crazy scenarios like at least Im not paralyzed or on fire ffs!!!

    Any of you who can grow accustomed and live happy with hair loss more power to you but as for me..I WANT A GODDAMN CURE!!

  • Metsie

    Their may and may not be a cure but look at it this way. Do you want to look back on your life thinking I wasted a chance to live my life because of my fuckin hair??? Or, are you going to say, yes losing my hair sucked big time but I moved on, accepted bad genetics and made the best of the situation. Life will go on either way, with or without you.

  • OS

    Some people cant go on without hair, its not a choice to make, its a situation to live with, and not all of us can accept that! is that so hard to comprehend?

  • Artista

    I have a wedding to go to this Friday, Need i say more? No i wont be wearing one of my stupid hats or bandannas or whatever. Can i get beyond it ,,yes of course. But i will not completely relax and be myself as i could normally be. Hair loss can be and is devastating for many of us men. Seems that society only allows for women to be destroyed by it. For some of us it isnt a matter of getting laid. Everyone wants to look in the mirror and feel comfortable with themselves. I wrote to Follica very recently. I had basically said to ‘them’ that there are those of us HERE at Xconomy that are a bit disappointed that the ISHRS didn’t produce any significant new news from the latest trials. I also added that any type of response that WASN’T a formality letter would be greatly appreciated. here is the email i got from Follica….
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Thanks for your inquiry . If you have any questions, please don’t hesitate to contact us on the number below.
    Follica Biosciences
    222 Berkeley Street
    Suite 1040
    Boston
    MA 02116
    Phone: (+1) 617-482-2333
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    ZZ ,Mets’ , I’m once again thinking of seeking a reputable FUE/Doc for sometime next year.

  • Ershath

    A Company based in Japan has conducted phase 1 clinical study for MPB cure…no details abt the method they are trying…
    http://www.rtechueno.com/en/documents/2009.716NotificationoftheCompletionofPhase1ClinicalStudyofRK-023_002.pdf

    This link contains some details abt there method…

    http://www.nature.com/jid/journal/v127/n6/abs/5700728a.html

    Hopefully someone will help us soon… :)

  • happy1
  • ZZ

    Hang in there Artista. Only you know what is best for you and what you can live with. I agree with your comments. I have a beautiful wife and kids so going out and getting laid is not on my radar screen. For me it’s about feeling good about myself but I know it is different for each of us. I think we are all a little down about the lack of any new info. Still there is big money in the game now and there are many angles that companies are working from, with infinitely more knowledge than they had just a few short years ago. There is a lot at stake and silence, while frustrating, is not equivalent to failure or a lack of progress. It is also not an un-wise course of business action. Not blindly but based on the ever increasing body of rapidly progressing research, I still choose to believe that we will see black & white proof of a real break-thru solution with-in the next 2-3 years + FDA approval. I know there are many who find comfort in bashing away at this perspective while simultaneously drowning in their own toxin, but I hope I can be a source of optimism for at least some of you. One trick I find helpful, and you will no doubt see this at your wedding Artista, is to notice those around you with less hair who seem full of confidence and happiness. Focusing on that picks me up every time.

  • Artista

    ZZ once again you here are a source of sobered commonsense. No one here can argue your words as i see it. Thanks ZZ

  • ZZ

    Nice work Happy1! Latisse is FDA approved. If it works, it can be prescribed off label immediately!

    Same to you Ershath. I had seen something on that before but the second link had a little more detail.

  • Metsie

    No Artista I wont beat the stuffing out of you if you do it.But seriously hang in there.I dont blame Follica or think they failed, I just wish they never dangled that carrot. Tom Petty had it right on with “the waiting is the hardest part.” I know what you mean about the wedding I blew off a recent H.S. reunion but I saw the pix. Looking at them I wish I didn’t!! Nobody looks that great now either balding or overweight or both. Even the class slut. UGHHH !! Another trick for weddings, 2 quick Long Island Ice Teas and your good to go.
    ZZ I agree, 2 to 3 years, you dont hire CEO’s for nothing.

  • Artista

    I don’t think Follica has failed in any way to date either. I don’t even mind the silence so much but considering that Histogen actually came here to drop a few lines to us was promising to say the least. Ill have a beer(s) for all of you tomorrow at the wedding guys.

  • NEWBIE

    when they do human – rat skin grafts and grow hair… is the result human hair.. or rat hair

  • ZZ

    Metsie, Along the 2-3 year front,here is another interesting item. I met with an orthopedic surgeon yesterday and he said that right now (in only 5-6 clinics across the country)they are injecting stem cells drawn from fat and bone marrow in a 1-2 hour procedure that regrows some cartilege and other structures that it comes in contact with. They are having good success with this in heading off knee replacements. Without getting into detail, he said that research in the stem cell area is moving very quickly and that you would not believe what’s coming down the pipeline (to supplement Long Island Teas!)in the next 5 years. As you know, there are already companies developing this technology to grow hair.

    NEWWBIE, I think there have been experiments doing it both ways and I believe there has been success both ways. Aderans has tried it both ways. With their technique, mouse hair cells on a mouse worked but human hair cells on a mouse did not. Phase II is trying the technique with human hair on human skin. Here is a quote from the Best of Life article: “Dr. Washenik clicks an image file on his computer: The photo shows what looks like Piglet with a sable Mohawk. But there is a caveat: “These were hair cells from a mouse that were injected into a mouse. When researchers injected human cells into a mouse, they didn’t get the same results.” This disappointed Dr. Washenik and other researchers, because unlike other organs, follicles are supposed to be immune privileged: When transplanted across or between species, they’re expected to grow normally, without being rejected or provoking infection. He hopes to have better luck in clinical trials, when he will transplant human cells into humans. Aderans is in the second phase of a human trial, which is expected to be completed by the end of the year.

  • ZZ

    Artista,

    Right on que for your wedding. Check out the Histogen website for the link to the interview with Gail Naughton.

  • Maverick500

    Here is the interview with Dr Gail Naughton. I´ve read it and if you ask me news are great(interview starts at the acrobat reader page 8 or 120 at scaned newspapers)… http://www.ishrs.org/PDF/F4-2009.pdf

  • Shooter

    Maverick, great find. Good interview, too. I agree the news is good. 2015 is a long way off, but at least the company is completely honest (which I value more than anything at this point) and very legit. It seems like a great product. I have to think that Follica would be farther away from a commercial treatment because Histogen’s approach is much less invasive. I really wish we could just sign consent forms and get some injections at our own risk.

  • Ershath

    Shooter,
    I would rather prefer to wait till 2015 or FDA approval,coz i would live bald than die of cancer…have patience…definitely someone would release a product in 5-10 years.

  • NEWBIE

    Okay. So here is my problem. If you research causes for hair loss (MPB), you will find studies about different genes that are involved, and DHT. Nobody knows what these gene’s do really, or how they cause MPB, they just know that men who have MPB tend to have these genes. Okay so what about DHT? We know that it causes hair loss, but we don’t know the mechanism for that.

    So when companies like intercytex and aderans (from what i understand they did/are doing similar things, except aderans is doing 2 types of cells– correct me if im wrong)test on mice how does that really relate to people. I mean that is great that they can regrow hair artificially on mice, but these mice do not have MPB (or other genes that cause them to lose their hair).

    So taking cells from hairs from a donor area which are “genetically resistant” and multiplying them, then inserting them doesn’t seem to work very well (intercytex results), it doesn’t really surprise me. because all of our cells in our bodies are made of up the same genes, the gene expression is what is different (much of which is influenced by surrounding cells, hormonal stimuli etc.) So perhaps when you take these cells and move them, they just have similar gene expression to the cells that were already there (which caused MPB in the first place).

    With follica, they are essentially, wounding the skin and regrowing hair… again all the cells will have the same genes as the cells that follicles that were already there. So how would that be any use, unless they are planning to do gene therapy along with it, or can somehow “trick” the gene expression of cells from the donor area.

    I think people are trying to skip a few steps (because we are all very anxious), and solve a problem without really understanding the problem. I think it is like asking a 5 year old to solve a very complicated algebra problem. They can guess all day at the answer, and by slim chance guess it right, but 99.9999999% of the guesses will be wrong. But once they learn algebra etc. they can solve the problem in an instant.

    The problem with guessing for the solution of hairloss, is we can guess answers, but it takes several months/years to even find out if the guess is right or wrong or close to right.

  • NEWBIE

    What they really need to do, is find a way to
    1) replenish the donor area hair
    2) Grow hair artificially, under the conditions so that it will be identical to donor resistant hair. (as opposed to taking stem cells and injecting them into an area which will probably cause them differentiate into MPB-prone follicles)

  • NEWBIE

    Rather than try all these techniques on bald areas of the head, they should try them in the donor area.

    If hair grows in the donor area that means that the technique is good, and works…. but the problem is that when it is done in a bald area, the hairs are MPB-prone and don’t grow.

  • Maverick

    2015 is set for U.S. market other countries in the world will have it sooner, read the interview carefully.

  • ZZ

    NEWBIE,

    Those are good points and I think you are right about researchers making assumptions and then testing which takes a long time. But I also think the number of variables they are tesing for is decreasing significantly as the body of research grows. I certainly don’t have the knowledge to shed much light on any of the details but several points to consider are: 1) Much of the mouse testing is done on hairless mice which are genetically programmed to have no hair and they have grown hair on these mice. Unfortunately, what works in mice does not often work in humans; 2)Take a look at the first exconomy article about Follica and the blog attached to it. A rep of Follica was commenting and they were very confident that they could grow hair but the question (aside from safety)was how long it would last. So even though it might not be genetically resistent to MPB, they felt the new hair would last 1 to 2 cycles (at least 2-4 years). The thing I really like about Follica is Cotsarelis: He is not a businessman or entrepreneur, he is a pure academic scientist/researhcer and I have read a number of accounts of what others have said about him and he appears to be very smart, methodical, & relentless with unquestionable integrity. Assuming they both pass the safety test, my guess is that Histogen will come thru with a good product but that Follica will be the home run.

  • AA

    R is bang on with his regimen. All you need is more patience, the naturals always take more time.

    This is proving to work for a number of people. Why not take anti-inflammatories to fight an inflammatory condition? It’s common sense, and does not degrade your good looks. I was looking pretty nasty for a while taking propecia.

    Don’t give in to the dark side.

  • J

    just wanted to share with everyone…I had a dream last night that I was brushing my hair!!! haha then I woke up!!!!! LOL

  • A

    lol yeah because taking propecia makes you ugly. Good one.

  • CROMAN

    What’s your opinion about this?

    http://www.trichozed.com/

    Does it realy stop hair loss?

  • OS

    J, i have this dream every day, when im awake or when sleep…. then i wake up and wish i’d be sleeping forever.

  • Andrew

    Jesus, OS.
    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME YOU GUYS ARE NOT MIDDLE-AGED MEN. Or even 30 above.

    If you people don’t bicker or moan in here, you get so over dramatic and contemplate suicide.

    Think of the little girl who has alopecia universalis. Instead of dreaming dead, can you dream about her courage, strength and determination to live?

    Wear a fucking toupee for the mean time and stop fucking broadcasting your wishful suicide in here.

    All the arguments here are always the same. Oh Follica’s lying, no they’re not, oh I can’t wait for 5 more years, this isn’t a cure, oh yes it is, no it’s just a treatment.

    There, I’m just itching to address what I’ve been observing since I am subscribed to this comment thread.

  • AA

    A….you are a tool, rooting for pharmaceuticals. You are living the american dream.

  • Andrews Brother

    Andrew I completely agree!!!

    The pity party has once again begun on this site…it is a weekly cycle and completely retarded. Nothing is ever resolved, just whining.

    whether every single comment on here is positive or completely pessimistic against these companies it will have ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT! on the results or lack there of that develop over the next 5 years.

    I really see no point in any further comments on any of these threads until more data is released

    but hey what do I know

  • ZZ

    Another approach to a hairloss treatment/cure of possible interest for some of you is listed on Cotsarelis bio page at U of Penn. Apparently, he is also working on this from another angle as this sounds like a much different concept than what Follica is based on:

    “Cutaneous Gene Therapy: We have developed a means for introducing plasmid DNA into human hair follicle progenitor cells by applying a mixture of DNA and liposomes topically to human skin transplanted to immunodeficient (scid) mice. The long-term goals of this project are to treat disorders of the skin and hair using this approach.”

    For those interested in more detail you can google plasmid dna. Essentially, “plasmids provide a mechanism for horizontal gene transfer” of good hair genes that would replace bad ones. Apparently, if they located the correct gene, they would do this by topical application.

  • OS

    Andrew, im 22 soon! what is the problem with my posts?? i share how i feel, you dont like it then dont read, i cant recall pointing a gun into your head, forcing you to read anything i write!! Look at me, and say “thank god im not in OS shoes!” because i m COMPLETELY bald and it devastated me! you should be thanking for telling you how i feel!!

  • OS

    I wish i had the guts to finish it all, i really want to! i cant take it anymore, i think the only thing that stops me is my family, i would hate to bring this on my mother and brothers, my mother is old, when she will pass away then i hope ill have the powers to end this misery and redeem the world from my pesty presents…

  • Artista

    First of all ,
    OS do NOT pay any attention or heed to whatever anyone may callously say here. When someone here decides that they have ALL the answers OR when their words of ‘advice’ are sardonic in nature it gives us a little insight to what they may be all about.
    And OS, DON’T take it personal either. The crudeness and lashing out in others denote a problem they themselves may be having as well. The main reason why ALL of us are here is to see if there will be a possible medical treatment in the future,bar none.
    I want to tell you that at the age of 22 YOU stand the best chance at enjoying good results later on. Be comforted in knowing that. No matter if it comes in the near or the far future because it eventually will be. Adapt to make your life enjoyable now.. Good times are ahead.

  • R

    I have spoke to alot of women and they stated that baldness does not bother them and its the attitude personality of the person. My test for all of you. Have a great personality and make people laugh and have fun around and watch the attraction. Trust me…suicide is wrong and never warranted. I started at age 20 years for hair loss and still well liked and being hit on by women. Its the personality. Try my experiment for a awhile and watch how people gravitate to you!

  • OS

    Thanks for that Artista! i felt better after reading your post! really did!!

  • A

    AA, im australian buddy. And im not sticking up for any pharma companies, im just telling it like it is, saying propecia makes people ugly is just such a stupid fucking comment to make

  • Artista

    OS, I’m glad that you are feeling better about things. Don’t lose sight of what was said or become pessimistic. Things will work out. You will see my friend.

  • AA

    I beg to differ. You seem to be a little too biased to research the facts.

    It grows hair, great.

    Did you ever wonder why people are posting here then? Why, we must all be fools for not taking propecia. Since there are no side effects whatsoever in reducing man juices by 70%.

    You are arguing science.

  • Maverick

    One day this will all be funny to us all, like syphilis is now. Look at this man, he got laid and syphilis turned him into a mutant, he started to literally decompose alive, what do you think how he felt? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rembrandt_Harmensz._van_Rijn_095.jpg

  • A

    Show me photographed or scientific evidence that suggests that propecia will alter ones looks please. Im not sticking up for it, im just putting ridiculous accusations to rest.

  • MAverick

    “Show me photographed or scientific evidence that suggests that propecia will alter ones looks please. Im not sticking up for it, im just putting ridiculous accusations to rest.”

    I think he meant to say that it makes you “ugly” because of the belly water retention, gyno etc. And that is true.

  • ZZ

    The article below regarding identification of the Sox21 gene is from May 2009 and has been posted here so it is not new information. But it may be of particular significance in light of my post above on 8/19 regarding “Cutaneous Gene Therapy” whereby Cotsarelis has developed a method to transplant the good gene by topical application.

    “Japanese researchers believe they have identified the gene in mice that causes hair loss… bringing a cure for baldness significantly closer. The researchers, who published their findings in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, identified the Sox21 gene as being a kind of “switch” that seemingly turns on hair loss. The British Daily Telegraph summarized the findings in this way:

    The scientists blocked the activity of the gene in mice and found that the rodents started losing hair on their heads about 15 days after birth and became completely naked a week later.

    “It is entirely possible that the gene is also a cause of thinning hair among humans”, said Professor Yumiko Saga at the National Institute of Genetics in Tokyo.

    Hairs have a long growing phase – two years or more – followed by a short resting phase of two or three months.

    But as some men age this pattern gradually reverses until eventually the resting period is so long that there’s no new hair coming through to replace the 100 to 150 hairs we lose daily through natural shedding.

    Another British website, UKMedix, reports that the Sox21 gene is also present in human skin and in the human hair shaft cuticle.

  • Artista

    Great research ZZ, that is so promising. I believe our intuitive sense concerning this technology is right on track.

  • ZZ

    I agree Artista. This has given me a big shot of encouragement. On the surface, this sounds like the simplest, safest concept of all of the treatment angles I have seen yet. I am curious as to how long the “Cutaneous Gene Therapy” piece has been on Cotsarelis’s bio page. Any other insight into this would be welcome.

  • KKwilliams

    Have they waited til the mice went hairless and then switch the gene back on to see if the process would reverse? if so why not?

    otherwise this will only help those who are beginning to lose their hair..still would be amazing though

  • Metsie

    Mice dont talk about propecia, they dont need it anymore. Even they know its crap.

  • Rx

    A- AA has a point. Propecia inhibits DHT which is an antagonist to estrogen. The result of lower DHT levels is higher estrogen levels. The result of all this is what maverick talks about. Another consequence is thyroid imbalance. Excess estrogen wrecks havoc on the thyroid- which causes bloating and weight gain in the stomach and face, hence what AA refers to as making one ugly. The solution could be thyroid medications such as cytomel or thyrolar. Synthroid is very weak and ineffective so that probably would not work.

  • WASHINGTON

    here it is not more the follica place. the only colloquy is here on propecia, minox, minox, propecia…

  • AA

    I was too lazy too be more clear on my explanations.

    All you really had to do was google it.

    Washington, there is barely talk of propecia here. This place is great for updates concerning hm and such. I wouldn’t complain.

  • J

    are we optomistic about follica and them coming out with a treatment in like 3-5yrs??? is that really realistic??

  • A

    Seems like we are in the quiet phase now and shouldnt expect anything new for awhile. I dont know about 3 – 5 years i mean its been over a year since they said 2 – 4 years and it doesnt look close, but science takes time

  • JimQ

    This site is a collection of lunatics. Its either one of two extremes, the crowd that thinks they are Dr. Phil and can change someone’s personality with anonymous internet postings, and the crowd that is going to shoot themselves. I don’t which side is crazier. I’m leaning towards Dr. Phil. The “women don’t care about baldness” thing is something bald guys tell themselves to feel better, and its just as crazy as “I’m going to blow my brains out”. Anyone who thinks they can come on here and change a person has a serious arrogance problem.

  • Shooter

    Lol, trx2 has a facebook.

    http://www.facebook.com/pages/TRX2/109399653358

    No new information, but it has a cool looking logo.

    I definitely have no faith in a product being pumped on facebook, but it still has peaked my interest.

  • Maverick

    JimQ I believe no one here wants to change anyone´s personality, man is just trying to comfort a clearly desperate man, and that is a good thing. I can tell you it is true that women in most cases do not care about baldness. It is the insecurity about a man who clearly can´t handle his condition that they don´t like about him and that they can smell in miles. If I see a man who shows that he is going to commit a suicide, I´ve would have done anything in my power to persuade him not to do it. If you think that comforting someone who is suicidal is crazy than you have no soul and you are in my opinion not a good man.

  • J

    listen….its a fact momen care if your bald or not..cause first thing you notice about someone is their appearence. how can you get her to notice your personality if you cant even get a date with her….sex appeal is first. if shes scrolling threw a date website or something its LOOKS first!!! FACT!! if you were scrolling threw a date website or scanning the bar scene im sure your not going to go to the fat chicks first….would you date a fat chick??? would you date a bald chick??? lets focuse here on the newest news!!! and when the hell we are going to see a good ass treatment…from follica or whomever….no its not the end of the world to be bald, but i would like the choice of whether to shave my head or not. and i would rather not!!!!! and i would rather have a full head of hair..not just for women but for myself!!!!!!!! i would like to think Follica is the best bet for a treatment and i am hoping for some really really good surprizing news in the NEAR future that they will have something in the very near term…..

  • Mark

    I dont leave my house, I just go to work and back home. I cant take this any longer, they should be working 24 hour days. This is really a disease that needs to be fast tracked given the potential damage it can cause on people. I can compare it to cancer cause I know many people are as good as dead, living a life in hiding, not doing anything with their lives.

  • JoJo

    # Mark
    8/24/09 9:06 pm

    … I can compare it to cancer cause …

    ____________________________________

    cause you are very very stupid, if someone in your family gets an incurable cancer, then come back here and repeat it again what you have said, dumbass … oh, man, I can’t stand this kind of people

  • JS

    JoJo, I have lost a family member to cancer but i understand where Mark is coming from. The fact is that when you have something wrong with you it’s the most important thing in the world, it’s a silly argument when people say someone is worse off, we know that but it doesn’t make what’s happening to yourself any less depressing. Hairloss does ruin peoples lives and no amount of self help bullshit will change that.

  • JoJo

    # JS
    8/24/09 9:26 pm

    JoJo, I have lost …
    ________________

    Balding would be “the most important thing in the world” while your mother is dying from cancer, for example ? What does it have to do do with the “self help bullshit” ?, it has to do with being the most selfish moron in the world.

  • rev

    Grow up JoJo.

  • Metsie

    UHH OHH looks like the monkeys are running the circus again. The bitter 20somethings are back!

  • JoJo

    # rev
    8/24/09 9:46 pm

    Grow up JoJo.
    ______________

    Oh, yes, I will grow up, so I can compare balding to cancer, perfect. What a bunch of immature jerks! LOL

  • A

    What did you expect from a site that says science is wrong and natural is the way to go. LOL.

  • R

    Jim Q… you are someone that needs help. Look everyone. If any of you would just scan the world and see bald men with preety women..you will see that your concerns were just in your head. If you want to die than that is up to you. I hope not…but your choice. If you are too immature to face life and live with what you have, then no one here will ever be able to or should convince you otherwise. You and everyone here represent a group that looks for a cure or treatment beyond the current product line.

    Again… you choice to end-life or continue and be a man that filling his own head with bullshit. You are in position with a great attitude to find a great women. I hope everyone here understands that you judge your own self much deeper that anyone else would or cares about your hairloss. Stop making baldness more that what it is people. It’s just a genetic gliche that pissess you off and evryone around you trully don’t care.

    TRUST ME… if you go on dating sites and describe yourself or singles clubs…watch how your hair loss means nothing to people or women. It’s your whole person / attitude that attracts people. Grow up!

  • rev

    R – I think it’s a bit too presumptuous to group all hairloss sufferers as guys desperate for hair so they can get a date. Some of us are married while some of us simply like looking our best.

  • Metsie

    See? This is what happens when people get impatient. They start turning on each other and argue over petty BS.
    No solid information from Follica since May.
    Some of you victims need to wet your hair and stick your head under the air conditioner and just relax.

  • Artista

    i wasn’t going to comment over all of this and wait until it all died away but i will have to agree with Metsie. One other thing, not everyone here has the ‘fortitude’ that it takes at any given moment to handle whatever it is that is prevailing in their lives. In this case it is MPB. When someone here expresses depression and sadness,anxieties or suicidal thoughts over MPB(or anything else!) it shouldn’t be handled with ones special type of toughlove or sardonic ‘wit’.

  • R

    Leave a string to Dr. Phil so the suicide watchdogs can seek some solace. Many of us here talk with more experience than you think and if you just listen and try the avenues presented you might be suprise. GOD KNOWS YOU CURRENT PATH IS DIRECTING YOU TO BULLET IN THE HEAD so learn for those that share. I would not be here if I didn’t care. Learn from the points and experiences. I suffered hairloss for 20 years and in the beginning I never went outside and was sad all the time…until I realized the reality of life and peoples true perception. Please listen and try the paths that were spoken.

  • rev

    Look, I’m sorry if I come across argumentative or snappy; I’m convinced those traits were honed (with a certain degree of lethality) on hairsite.

    If I could be sincere for one moment I’d like to share my outlook on hairloss. Hairloss causes us grief, and grief –as we all know– comes in stages: Some of us are in 1)Denial while others are 2)Angry. Some are in the 3)Bargaining phase while others are terribly 4)Depressed. There’s even a small portion in the final phase – 5)Acceptance. Everyone is going through a different phase of grief at a different time, and I think it’s wrong for someone, for example, in the acceptance phase to pick on someone whose depressed (because that guy, too, had to go through his depression phase beforehand). People need to be given time and space to progress through those phases. They don’t need the acceptance phase crammed down their throats… especially when they’re not ready for it.

    There will be people that evolved to a point where hairloss doesn’t bother them, and there will be people that think it’s comparable to cancer. I wouldn’t call them morons… they’re just on a different part of the same shitty road.

  • J

    I just want to know if we are gonna have some sort of viable treatment in the next couple of years…even if i have to go back numerous times I wouldnt care….

    If it ends up being some 10yr bs then I personally will be finding some scientists and beating some serious scientist ass!!!

  • SB

    We all want to know if and when. But it will come when it comes. (I’ve been waiting for HM and similar technology like Follica myself for 10 years)

    And when it comes, there will be so much publicity that it will be on the 6 O’clock news for Christ’s sake, followed by commercials…to the point that “Follica” becomes a household word.

    We will never hear the end of it! They will promote the crap out of it to the point, that the whole world will know about the new “Follica” miracle hair regrowth treatment that actually works.

    So, to continue “speculating” in order to “plan” out if and when to have your conventional transplants (or to not have them) is just wishful thinking, but dumb.

    Thinking that any of these companies will “go public” with any real, definate, and concrete release date is also wishful thinking, and also dumb.

    They just aren’t going to do so. They will announce to the public when they are good and ready to, and not until then.

    Hate to be a killjoy, but it is what it is.

    Every couple months when I come on one of these Follica blogs, just to see the latest news, I have to say that it is comical. Nothing but a bunch of bickering baldies arguing and bighting each other’s heads off about possible Follica release dates. LOL.

    Anyways, I’ll be back in a couple months! I’m sure I won’t miss much during that time. LOL!

  • billy

    someone should pm thomas whitfield on facebook. maybe something good might come out of it. beats sitting here arguing about stupid things that no one cares about

  • Artista

    Its always so special to have someone like SB come here to visit us with his lofty insight and condescending wisdom, isn’t it guys? Of course HE is the only one who really knows what reality is coming up next. His speculation is the ONLY truism here. That is why his moniker is BS ,oops i meant SB.
    It is true though that once a company produces something with decent results you wont be able to turn on the tv without hearing about it BUT that’s commonsense. Who didn’t know that? Cant wait til he comes back in a few months.

  • Metsie

    SB whoa re you kidding? Your first line says it all, you have been waiting for as long as 10 years. Your worse then most, and most likely are a reglar visitor to this site anxiously waiting for the day a cure is found. If you had confidence in what you wrote then you would have never had to say it in the fist place. You sold me on the pretentious sarcasm. In a few months when you finally read this you can have a smug chuckle to yourself. Enjoy, you are far better then us.

  • R

    Again….you will se a cure when Ron Howard and mnay other wealthy men / women have full heads of hair. Time 2015 predicted by the researchers. Follica stated maybe 2-3 years, sorry but that time frame is coming fast w/o any sign of truth. You have five choices,

    1. Wait
    2. self destruction (please don’t)
    3. natural or pharma drugs
    4. HT’s (please don’t)
    5. accept it

    Have any of you tried my great attitude and live approach coupled with convidence and a great personality?

  • R

    Again….you will se a cure when Ron Howard and mnay other wealthy men / women have full heads of hair. Time 2015 predicted by the researchers. Follica stated maybe 2-3 years, sorry but that time frame is coming fast w/o any sign of truth. You have five choices,

    1. Wait
    2. self destruction (please don’t)
    3. natural or pharma drugs
    4. HT’s (please don’t)
    5. accept it

    Have any of you tried my great attitude and live approach coupled with confidence and a great personality?

  • JS

    Would it be possible for everyone to stop talking about their feelings and using psycho babble bullshit. I first came here to get some updates on new treatments not listen to this crap. There’s only a couple of posters left who actually bring news now. Even R is losing the plot.

    I’m really not interested in hearing about how people are getting dates using their personalities, everyone is different. So can we please get back to the point of this place.

  • A

    This site has been self destructing for awhile lol.

  • KKwilliams

    JS,

    Speak it man! I totally agree.. who cares about all this speculation on everything under the sun. i personally believe most young women obviously care about a guys hairline, looks.. Why shouldn’t they.

    As a guy suffering from this crapp I dont hold anything against them. would I date someone who doesn’t turn me on. NO! so why should they.

    I KNOW things will continue to be a roller coaster on here as new ppl will use this site and old posters will go emo once and a while.

    the more I do think about things though 5 years seems way too close for any of these current treatments to produce real results.

    there are just too many factors and variables. texture, diameter , color, direction, density, dht resistant and the list goes on.

    dont get me wrong Im glad things are slowly moving along research wise but my belief is that follica and histogen and all the others will only be used as platforms to be built upon down the line.

    all that being said..everyone go have some fun, not sure what that means for the rest of you and lets just try and keep the post relevant

  • rev

    Sorry JS, but only “Psycho-babble” explains why people like R keep telling us to accept hairloss, why Mark thinks hairloss is comparable to cancer, and why some people (like me) are angry about this whole ordeal.

  • Artista

    At present time we are hearing nothing from the respective company’s mentioned here.
    No new news.
    Until the time that we do have news from them and things start to happen i see nothing wrong with visitors expressing themselves to fill the void. As long as no one is being CRUEL,UNKIND and INSULTING to others here that is. Seems to me that some people may need a little support from others at times. Whats wrong with that?
    As i have said there is NO new news currently. When Follica and the others have something new to share you shall see the tenor change drastically. If you prefer a tailor made blog site you might think about creating one of your own.

  • D

    Guys, I was wondering if any of you have seborrheic dermatitis on your scalp and what you use to control it?
    My crown and the back of my head is constantly inflammed or tingling or itching. My hair is visably thinning in those areas (I find hairs with thinner roots and thicker ends). I use head & shoulders and nizoral (sometimes t-gel) everyday which worked amazing the past 9 months to thicken up and reverse my miniaturization. My hair itself is about 5 inches long and is actually pretty full, but its the crown and the back of my head which causes me the most concern. Please let me know if anything! Thanks.

  • washington

    I agree to you JS… this place does not have nothing of information, only sad and desperate people. ARTIST, this place was made for information on follica, was not made for questions on propecia, minox, or seborreia. this place behind lost the reference on follica or multiplication of the hair the times…

  • Artista

    Washington, i seem to remember you yourself expressing personal angst here. Should someone have told you to keep it to yourself and shut up when you did? No, of course not. I agree that the theme of this site is to be focused on what the title states that it is. But there is NO new news right now.Companies are tight lipped at this present time.In the meantime if someone comes here expressing obvious depression and anxiety over their current situation what is wrong with having a dialog about it? And Ive NEVER been in favor of the ‘Propecia debates’.I have always stated this blog site is not the place for it. Now i see that ‘D’ has a serious question about seborrheic dermatitis. Should that be ignored too? Even if there is one of us that has experience with it and with Niz’ ?

  • WASHINGTON

    OK… HAD REMOVED MY COMMENTARY? then I go to repeat. This loval this a garbage, does not say more on follica or multiplication of hair, only speaks on propecia, minox and seborreia…

  • KKwilliams

    why was my post deleted? if you cant freely post here then let me know because if thats the case this place is useless and ill go.

  • Hi Washington, KK, Artista and others

    We had a big site crash today, with the site down for seven hours. We had to reboot to our last backup, with the result that any comments posted after about 330 am est today were deleted. We have copies of most, if not all, of them and are going to be reinstating. It might take until tomorrow morning–but we are on it!

    Great apologies. Best,
    Bob

  • KKwilliams

    thanks for the reply.

  • Hi all,

    I think I have restored all comments, and at their rightful times…Please check out the stream beginning with A at 5:34 am to Artista at 10:39 am, the last one before we crashed. But let us know if you spot anything amiss!
    Cheers

    Bob

  • Artista

    Hi Bob, i had thought there was site trouble earlier today. Did Xconomy get infected with one of the many damned viruses out there? Gosh,people that create those viruses should do very hard time in a federal prison. Good to hear from you again Bob take care and thanks

  • JS

    rev, i wasn’t really talking about your posts. You’re one of the posters who used to come on here quite frequently with some information. I don’t blame you for getting angry, i think most of us are getting a bit pissed waiting for information.

    KKwilliams, i agree with you and i don’t blame women for wanting men with hair, would any man want to date a bald woman. I know i wouldn’t.

  • Hi Artista

    Thanks for the note and kind words. I dont think we were hit by a virus, but rather a bug in our system that caused the crash. Hopefully our IT guru has it all straightened out!

    Best
    Bob

  • billy

    if we get bad news from aderans phase 2 trails, then i will personally accept hairloss and move on. i dont really believe any one other then aderans are capable of actual hair resoration ( ie nw7 – nw1) lets just hope their method works..

  • Artista

    Hi billy, tell me why exactly do you believe Aderans is the only one capable of achieving such restoration? Im curious to know,thx

  • ZZ

    Billy, Since you have put a lot of faith in Aderans, you may want to look on their website, go to the news tab and read the March 2009 article entitled “The New Science of Hair Growth”. It basically summarizes the work of 4-5 companies that are feverishly at work to be first to market. You will see that there are a number of different approaches that companies are taking. And we have learned of another approach recently called Cutaneous Gene Therapy. No one knows the times lines but every day we are getting a step closer. We just don’t know if that’s 3-5 years or 6-10 years.

  • Cadillac

    Im curious on your thoughts guys, I kind of follica related.

    I was one of the dumb guys who caved and got an ht thinking it was a real option(ITS NOT!!)

    I am highly considering having all of the work lasered out. If this is done will follica still work? I mean lasering out hair kills it so would follica and these other similar treatments No longer be an option for me?

    Id rather be balding and have ppl realize I am losing some hair then omg he had a Hair transplant! plus the hair looks horrible.

    right now im terrified of being outed as an ht rat. Id rather just go back to being a guy who is a nw 2.5 or 3 or w/e

    I still have well above avg coverage and Im not 18 or anything so its not as big of a deal as it was to me as it was even 3 years ago.

  • Artista

    Others will know more about this than i Caddy but i have read that it is possible to regenerate hair on scarred skin tissue as well. If your out there ‘Appleman’ what could you add to this?

  • R

    I would add Cadillac that lasering hair should not hurt the future treatments as they are creating a new platform / environment for the growth. Also, did you go to a reputable HT doctor. I too regret my decision as I made in my early 20’s and even though people cant tell even after I tell them (including hair stylest) the fact is that the Internet would have stopped me and it astounds me that people with this information medium would do HT’s

    I was not so lucky to have this so my excuse is based on ignorance only. The fact is that this site if people would listen affords much information that will not allow stupid mistakes again. But information always falls on deaf ears and people will learn the hard way sooner than later.

    Update on Follica: Nothing. I be they report every year or so.

  • Artista

    The information i have learned here as well as other peoples experiences
    (now Cadillac’s) shared has deterred me to date from having HTs done R. Although I still do debate having it done,(also Shooter threatens to beat anyone that does it lol)I am awaiting what maybe next. Hey Cadillac ,what type of hair do you have? Thick,thin, fine?

  • Cadillac

    Artista,

    DONT get an ht! I am being as geniune as one can. Yes pics look unreal but the true to life results are nowhere near what you are expecting.

    I went to the top hairline guy in the biz(arguably) yet he is a very controversial doc talked about on the forums. I did well over a years research and thought I was going to get this thing fixed. I feel so much worse not to mention OUT 15 THOUSAND DOLLARS!! to a mid 20 year old guy that’s a hell of a lot of money.

    I dont even hold any major grudge against the clinic as I have come to realize that ht’s are not a good choice for anyone imo.

    It is unrealistic to think cutting hairs out and moving them somewhere else will work is nuts. I ended up with i would say 30% of natural density and the hairs that are now growing look so out of place.

    I did research spent big, went to a great surgeon and still got bad results. Hair transplants are not “cutting” lol edge.

    Artista esp if it is work in the hairline dont go through w it. if its light crown work it is much easier to become pleased with ht results due to the way the hair lays there, the much easier use of toppik etc, and just the fact that crown hair is much less scrutinized in day to day interactions.

    I used to post on forums and my results were hailed as “wow” one of the best ht’s ever but that just goes to show pics r b.s.

    I have a 1 mm(great) scar but I still know its there. and shaving down is now never a possibility.

    Getting an ht takes so many future options away from you man. plus you will 99% likely need another ht..its very expensive on top of everything else.

    sorry for the rant but Artista asked so I obliged

    R, Ive had 2 procedures , 1 strip, 1 fue..my density was supposed to get me to 80% of natural density and thats just a joke. No offense but based on my 2 ops I dont believe that no one suspects you’ve had anything done. HT hair stands out like a sore thumb Especially to a backdrop of normal hair.

    If you had a complete overhaul and you also have curly hair I might buy that though

    I guess I need to see if I can find any comments by follica or aderan reps discussing if there procedures will work on laser removed hair areas before I proceed.

  • Artista

    Hey Cadillac,,great response thank you. Not a rant at all but instead very informative. You give a little more insight to what it might be like to have those type of procedures done. Ill hold off and thanks.

  • SB

    Well, I usually only check this blog every couple months, but I feel that I should chime in after reading Cadillac’s story.

    I am in about the same boat as you Cadillac, but I’m most likely worse off than you.

    I was a NW5, and about 35 years old when I had had my first HT. I made the mistake of going to a hack, and he made my hair look absolutley ridiculous. He gave me a very unrealistic hairline, dolls-head plugs, and no density behind it.

    Since then, I have had 2 more surgeries (alos with a “world renowned” surgeon) which were mainly focused at “disguising” the first HT I had.

    My hair looks so ridiclous now that it is really a complete joke. I too have about 30% density in my previous NW5 bald area, an unrealistc , fake looking hairline, as very low density in my very to crown.

    My hair only looks kinda “full” fron the front angle only. But as soon as I turn my head sideways, anybody can see right through my “see-through” hair. However, on the top, the hairs were implanted the wrong difrection, so they “go against the grain” and “stick out like a sore thumb” just like Cadillac said. It really is quite laughable.

    I have lost all confidence, and I am looked upon as either a cancer patient (by the few people my HT’s fool) or as a guy who has had HT’s that didn’t work (by about 99% of people who see me everyday).

    HT’s have turned me into a laughing stock, and women have no respect at all for me.

    The worst part is, I have spent about $45,000 for all of my HT’s and they have made my life miserable.

    If I shave my head, I too have an “ear to ear” smiley-face donor scar.

    If I could do it all over again, I would have stayed the Hell away from HT’s.

    I have read about A LOT of guys who are VERY unhappy with their HT’s. And in my opinion, HT’s rarely ever turn out well. I’d say about maybe 25% of them do, and the remaining 75% turn out from mediocre to just plain awful – as in my case.

    So, for all it’s worth, another “2 thumbs down” for HT’s.

  • Artista

    I can only imagine worse case scenarios for myself but some of you maybe actually experiencing them. SB thank you for your insight and experiences. It would be a good thing for all of us if more people would step up and share their HT stories as SB ,Cadillac and others have done. Good AND bad. More so for you guys that i HOPE a VIABLE treatment is proven to help SOONER rather than later. It isn’t impossible, it will eventually happen. Do not allow disappointment or depression keep you down if you can.

  • SB

    I’m just waiting for HM or Follica like everyone else. (AND GOD DO I REALLY NEED IT BADLY!)

    Until then, I may have one more HT and see how it looks. But it will use all of my 1,500 to 1,800 donor grafts I have left, and I will have to have some repair work on top of that. I doubt it’s going to improve much.

    Aything above that, and I would need BHT grafts. Since I really don’t hve much body hair, I would be doing mostly pubes with BHT, and I don’t think that would look too good with my straight, light-colored head hair.

    So, I am looking into head-shaving and working on reducing/disguising my strip scar. It may be the only alternative I have. I refuse to go around looking like a buffoon for the rest of my life – “Johnny Hair transplant.” LOL!

  • CROMAN

    30% of natural density means 30 hairs per 1 cmXcm.For best results you have to achieve at least 60 hairs(60% of natural density) per 1cmXcm(cmˇ2) and that means that for a good results you must use at least 6000 hairs(not grafts).That is enough to cover 10cmX10xm of bald area!

    In Croatia 6000 hairs=15 000E~20000$!

    SB you spent 45000$..I just don’t understand.

  • SB

    The average bald area of a NW5 is 180 to 220 cm.^2 (squared). Mine was estimated to be 210 cm.^2

    Approx. 7,000 grafts is what I have had in 3 HT surgeries. If you spread 7,000 over 210 cm.^2, you get 33.3 grafts (or follicular units) per cm.^2. Since the normal/average (non balding) head of hair has approx 100 cm^2 (which is 100 FU’s per square centimenter), then 33.3 equals approx 33% of normal density.

    $45,000/7,000 grafts equal approx $6.50 per graft.

    it’s a numbers game. However, I was “tricked” by nthe first guy I went to who “played” a numbers game with me, to make me think that I would be able to have 50% density. He told me that because each graft contained an average of 2 follicular units (he was a hack using “mini” grafts – aka “plugs”), that I would have no problem reaching 50% density.

    He lied to me. I was ill-informed because I did not do enough research to know any better the first time I got an HT.

    I have about 1,500 to 1,800 left before my donor is depleted. This will add another 10%, but won’t be enough to reach 50 to 60%.

    It’s a “numbers” game.

    Answer your questions?

  • R

    Sorry Cadillac…but you were butchured and the fact that women still hit on me (even younger) defeats your ploy about my results. You need to understand that every man and women who gets HT’s will have different results. You can assume all you want but people ask me for the number of my doctor and hair stylest do the same becasue of the results.

    Again….I am against HT’s and if you have a bad result. I am sorry and pray a cure comes soon.

  • rev

    R – If your results are that good than why are you here?

  • CROMAN

    But one graft=approx two hairs!

    33.5 grafts =~70 hairs!

    7000 GRAFTS…MY GOD..THAT MUST BE 15000 HAIRS.

  • SB

    “But one graft=approx two hairs!

    33.5 grafts =~70 hairs!

    7000 GRAFTS…MY GOD..THAT MUST BE 15000 HAIRS.”

    No, it’s approx 7,000 hairs, give or take 500.

    The first 1,300 were done by a hack. He used plugs consisting of apoprox. 500 grafts with 5-7 hairs, 500 grafts with 3-4 hairs, and the rest were 1-2 hairs per graft. However, a great deal of these grafts did not survive. I’d say about 2/3 died, and fell out, due to a scalp infection I got shortly after my surgery. Cost = approx $10,000 ($7.50 x 1,300) + tax.

    Then I have 2 other procedures witha “world renowned” HT surgeon (not with the 1st guy – why would anyone go back there?)

    My 2nd HT was all single follicular units (hairs) with approx with 3,000 hairs. Cost = $12,500 ($4 x 3,000) + tax.

    My 3rd HT was also all singles with approx 2,700 hairs (approx $4.50 x 2,700) + tax.

    These are approximations, as all of my HT’s were “negotiated” for the whole job, not based strictly on the number of grafts times a specific amount.

    Again, I was fooled by the first HT doctor I went to. He deliberately mislead me, and confused me about the number of hairs vs. number of grafts. This was because I did not know enough about the process or the “ins and outs” of HT’s when I had the first one done. this is quite the norm for a lot of guys who get their first HT, they do not fully understand the consequences until AFTER they have had their first one. But, by then, it’s too late.

    It’s good you are asking questions like this if you are seriously thinking about having an HT. However, this blog is not really about traditional HT’s, it’s about Follica.

    The only reason I shared my story is that I read Cadillac’s, and I knew it was similar to my own. Several guys reading this blog maybe considering an HT right now, and with all the “marketing hype” you see on other websites (HT net, HLH, and others) you don’t see very many cases of “bad HT’s”

    However, there are far more bad HT’s than most guys realize. I’ll leave it that. This has already been brought up and discussed here and many other places before.

  • Artista

    SB don’t feel that these discussions are obtrusive. Follica and the like are a bit silent at present time. The more education on HT here is for the betterment of us all. It is a whole lot different than the ‘propecia debates’ (Now don’t start up with that again guys,and you know who i am referring to lol)

  • R

    I am here because 100% cure is better than a lack of 100%. I sahre many stories and have Told each of you many times to avoid HT’s. Also, I have repeatedly stated that blanket statements are wrong and untruthful. My results were probably luck? But I and many others never had the Internet in the early 90’s and it does suprise me that people today don’t research enough. My cry to stop everyone with getting HT’s is that I am now much older and see the truth behind the inhibition and fear I had that were artificial. Women just don’t care.

    That is why I am here to help educate and stop needless drugs and surgery for all the wrong reasons. I and many others never have to share our background and consider yourslef lucky. However…you can never say that you were not coached and educated by us who experienced much more due to not having the Internet and have matured to see that women don’t care. Have any of you actually spoke to women and asked their opinion. Ask them at 20 years, 25, 30 ,35 years etc.. and see the reality.

  • Cadillac

    R your comments make no sense.

    1)You say you got undetectable results and you are a babe magnet.

    2)Then you say you;re against ht’s which makes no sense due to comment 1!

    NO I did not get butchered and I went out of my to mention that several times. If I have a 1mm scar wide how is that butchered?

    As for my results Id say they are at least in the top 85% of results in terms of quality. The SIMPLE FACT is its not a good option.

    If your results are undetectable link a pic to a free host site and let us be wowed ..block your face and whatever else u like.

    Croman and SB

    Too many guys, including myself just crunch the graft and hair numbers and say wow I can easily get 80% original density. The truth is you will not even get close to 100% growth as many grafts will not survive.

    The closer they are place the harder it is. When they attempt to place at too high of a density the hairs end up all coming out of the same “hole”

    Since this is not the place for these discussions Ill shu t up. All I can say is that if anyone here believes that ht hair is anywhere close to looking like normal hair in texture, size and so on..check back after your 1 year ht and I guarantee you will be complaining.

    My only advice is to try and live as best you can and patiently watch for a breakthrough. DONT waste your money on any creams, pills, herbs and save all that otherwise wasted money and you will have a great head start on paying for any future breakthrough treatments….OR HELL you may get over your hair loss obsession and use it as a down payment on a house or something.

    Since I know how continuous and unresolvable these back and fourths are I shall take my leave. Good luck w your decision Artista.

    At least go see the work in person and really inspect it! Isolate 1 hair and see how “wirey” and unnatural it is. feel how thick it is.

  • R

    Cadillac you are like the rest …you cannot even read comments correctly. I am just gald you are warning the much brain dead people that will still get HT’s even after your posts. My comment is the same wait and I have nothing to prove other than warn of subpar bullshit practices and drugs. My HT’s work and I regret it due to being more mature and seeing life as an older person. You may wnat to rent love to control such anger.

  • Artista

    a disclaimer;(This question is for curiosities sake only)
    R, do you realize just how rude a statement this was when you typed it?
    “…the much brain dead people that will still get HT..”
    My question was merely rhetorical in nature folks. I really don’t expect a concise answer. Just filling the void.

  • R

    My rebuttal is frustration because no one trully reads the statements and try’s to understand that no matter the path taken..there are risks and some like HT’s can not be reversed. When you see the commercials that states the results are permanent…it means both good and bad. So like here have tried with success…the natural way has shown to work just as good as propecia without the side effects. HT’s from perspective even with the results are stupid and I REGRET THE SURGERY BUT WAS NOT WELL INFORMED OR MATURE ENOUGH TO SEE THE BULLSHIT.

    Now…nobody should expect a product until 2012 or 2015. If you review the comments from the said practioners…you will see these timelines are realistic. I am not trying to rude or hurtful just trying to cut through the bull and state the truth. I have tried everything under the sun and went through major depression (suicidal thoughts) this why I know and understand and stating that it is not as bad as you think and I would rather hurt your feelings and stop you from HT’s and propecia than have you regret the decicion. I wish I had this forum in 1991.

    Again….my posts are from the heart and if I hurt your feeelings GOOD…I would rather you hate me than do something stupid.

  • Artista

    sorry i asked

  • rev

    So you regret your transplant, tell us not to get one and to accept our looks, yet you keep telling us women swoon to you thanks to your transplant.

    You don’t think anything’s coming soon, yet you were the biggest proponent of Mercola’s magic treatment.

    You say you don’t want to be rude or hurtful, yet you assume we don’t talk to women, call some of us brain dead, and take pride in being rude to Arista.

    It’s good to know where you stand.

  • R

    Boo Hoo Little Babies…read the reality of post brain dead jack-a#$

  • Deluxe

    Hey Arista, how are you? Sorry I’ve been gone for a while, however I still come one here and read up on the posts once in a while.

    Whats goin on here? Why is everyone upset with eachother?… R, you have a lot to offer to this post and i know because i’ve read alot of what you had to offer. I think you are being misunderstood here. I think youre approach at how you try to make a point may be..not the right way?

    In any case, lets all get back to why were all really here…and for most of us its one truth. As corny as it may sound but lets squash the beef and be here for one another and use eachothers help to get through this disease.

  • A

    lol wow, why not just get a HT if Treatment is coming in 2012 – 2015 that way you can look good now and look good later aswell. If you have 85% Density and your complaining then i doubt 100% would make you feel happy either because really there is not much difference.

  • Artista

    Wow,,good to see you Deluxe. Long time. Yea,,these emotions come in waves. Human behavior is what it is. Hey A , i have since been reconsidering HTs now. Not until i actually see results in person. More research is needed of course in re to the ratios. Pros and cons etc. We don’t know exactly when there maybe a decent ‘breakthrough’. I’m no stranger to Murphys Law so i am even more cautious than ever after reading some of the experiences recently.

  • SB

    “lol wow, why not just get a HT if Treatment is coming in 2012 – 2015 that way you can look good now and look good later aswell.”

    That sounds good, however, in this particular situation, that sort of resoning could get you into trouble. Why?

    Been there, done that (had HT’s to “get me by” until HM)- back in 2004, when HM “was only 3 to 5 years away.”

    Here it is 2009, and now it’s 2012 to 2015 – gee, that’s still “3 to 5 years away”

    Oh, I see, now it’s REALLY just 3 to 5 years away, before it really wasn’t. LOL! Give me a break!

    Have an HT with the notion that it is PERMANENT because you may just have live with it for the rest of your life! Why?

    Because it IS permanent!

    If the HT turns out bad (Murphy’s Law – it happened to me), then HM or Follica (or any of the new tech companies such as Aderans, Histogen, etc…) could wind up being your ONLY hope.

    Besides getting another HT which probably won’t bring much improvement and it will exhaust all my donor and having BHT’s, shaving my head and getting scar treatment is my only other option right now. Unless of course Follica (or any new companies) come out. But again, like in 2004, it is yet still “3 to 5 years away.”

    When I had my HT’s, I did not think I was going to get screwed, and I did. Murphy’s Law!

    Banking on Follica (or any comapany) coming out in 3 to 5 years, and havings HT’s in the mean time is a GAMBLE!

    If your HT’s turn out with good results, fine. But if they don’t, you are stuck with “conventional” ways to repair them, and if you are beyond that (like me, and a lot of HT “victims” are), Follica or similar companies are still “3 to 5 years away.”

  • Artista

    Thanks for the insight once again SB

  • A

    I dont doubt your points SB, really i dont. Its always a gamble definitely but if im going to go through with it which im giving serious thought too ill be getting a Trichlosure done, which means basically no scar visible. All my planning will be based on news of successes with follica etc, so lets say Follica or Histogen can regrow 60% Density and maintain your current hair i would definitely be booking a hairline HT Straight away to get that area ready as im sure that the density they perfect will be to the back of the head and they will always have hairline issues for some reason.

    Nice input and thanks for sharing your story too.

  • R

    Goto the Histogen site and listen to the Interview “Bald Truth” and Histogen rep on the product etc… It will shed new light on the potential of the drug and what if at higher doses. The interview was condesed to 1 hour. You can the link on the bottom left corner of the site page.

    Interview with Dr. Craig Ziering on The Bald Truth
    Dr. Craig Ziering, principal investigator on the clinical trial of HSC for hair regrowth, spoke to the recently completed preliminary clinical trial of Histogen’s Hair Stimulating Complex (HSC) in an interview with Spencer Kobren’s The Bald Truth.

    Listen to the segment here

  • Dave
  • ZZ

    Interesting information R and Dave. These are the type of posts I like to see on this site. Elaine Fuchs is really something. I believe this is her second significant discovery this year, the first report posted back in February. Long inetrview, so summarizing, here is what I took away:
    1) Ziering is extremely positive about HSC…the complex definitely works but the total extent of effectiveness will not be known without further testing;
    2) He is expecting much more significant results with more concentrated injections
    3) There was apparently a slight fall off in benefit from the 12 week results and the 5 month results…possibly why we have seen no 5 month pictures.
    4)Sounds like they feel this can be addressed with either higher concentrations of injections and /or interim topical applications.
    5)Ziering stated that if this moves forward “as they expect” they will definitely seek approval outside the US first and then follow with an application to FDA on a 2015 time line to go to market in the USA. This appears to mean that HSC might be available outside the US by 2013 or 2014, maybe sooner.
    6)I believe I heard Ziering state that he has a financial interest in this. Not sure if this is good or bad. If he is as honest as the day is long then this is a good thing as he is putting $$ into something he has seen and believes in. On the other hand, it sounds like a huge conflict of interest as the principal investigator.

    Did anyone else catch the ownership thing and did anyone take away any other good info from the interview?

  • G

    D,
    I have the same itching issues as you do. Are you on propecia or minoxidil ? have you ever tried curcumin? its known for its anti-inflammatory and anti-androgen properties.

  • OS
  • R

    There are no absolutes, however, based on the preliminary studies it is promising and if it could at least produce unlimited donor hair..that is a major breakthrough. But, we still need to hear the larger dose potential and resurfacing technique of Follica which is supposed to change and alter the area to regrow ahir forever. Another note about hair and my disagreement with the DR. One Elaine Fuchs showed a study when a man was balding for over 40 years and started using a strong anti-inflammatory which regrew all his hair back thick. This man was a NW5 or 6 I believe and still regrew his hair back.

    This shows the hairs are alive and just sleeping. Believe me that hair was dormant in frontal areas of my head are regrowing after 20 years since the natural approach on the MPB website. We are near the end so relax.

  • Artista

    Why the ‘R.I.P.’? All that has to do with the economical business end and nothing to do with the actual research. Yes i know research needs financing, that’s a no~brainer but that article said NOTHING about lab results. Nothing. Its as if some people here cant wait to say ‘its all over, We’re doomed’. The Eeyore syndrome shows its face once again.

  • OS

    If they has something worthy to show they would find the finances…………………………………………….

  • R

    Like I said many moons ago…they (INTERCYTEX) affiliated with Bosely. Nothing more needs to be said. If Cotsarelis and the others join Bosely..it over.

  • OS

    Im just so tired of everything…..

  • A

    Can i please see some before and after pictures of peopler regrowing there hair with Natural approaches. It would be very beneficial

  • AA

    Yeah, why hasn’t anybody done this? Not wanting the internet to know what you look like is one thing…but you COULD blur your face out.

  • JS

    R, did you by any chance hear anything else about Luna and their work. I can’t remember if it was you who had been in touch with them. The last thing that they said about it on their website was,

    “Luna scientists are currently exploring different dosing regimens and formulations to optimize performance”.

    There isn’t a date on the article so i don’t know how old it is.

  • billy

    Like I said many moons ago…they (INTERCYTEX) affiliated with Bosely. Nothing more needs to be said. If Cotsarelis and the others join Bosely..it over.\

    what a bunch of bs. aderans (bosley) right now have the best chance of solving this mess.. and futher more what did you expect intercytex to do?? butcher you with cultured cells??? being affiliated with bosely means nothing, if anything its a postive since financing wouldnt be a issue

  • R

    Wrong Billy….research Bosely and see the lawsuits by their BS. You have not experienced or researched enough or tried enough experiments to provide that opinion. Many people here have only dabbled and I have resarched much. LUNA is not working hard in that area or you would discover more news on the Internet. It was an accident and they are working on many other projects. Luna would be last to make any news or breakthrough.

  • TheOne

    You do realize that Kurt Stenn of Aderans is a contributor to Follica, Also Dr Cotsarelis is on Aderans board of scientific advisors.

    Yes Bosley have a somewhat bad reputation for hair transplants, but they are only one branch of the parent company Aderans, I fail to see that a bosley hair transplant has anything to do with aderans hair multiplication what so ever.
    They might as well be totally seperate.

  • R

    My experience with corporate is that if the leaders are the same..get used to disapointment. Bosley hacked many people and Intercytex is another path of trying to use the HT method. If Cotsarelis is part of this then prepare for an alternate route and much disapointment. He will be subject to deviate and produce subpar money making treatments. I would rahter go bald then to deal with Hacks like Bosley. Believe me as I stated earlier and siad that Intercytex was big maybe! So will too Cotsarelis if he is subject to the same leadership and guidance.

    I hope everyone well..I just don’t see the logic with Anderans and the Bosley relationship affilliated with a great product. You will have a product, but not at your level of expectation. Mercolas group has back tracked but not denied his work. I will say that 6 years is our best bet.

    Follica? The story and path may change???
    Intercytex…No way!!!
    Anderans….Big Maybe
    Luna…Not in our life time
    Mercola…Hack!!!
    Histogen..probably our best hope?
    Bonn University…makes a good story, but follow-up?

    University / Fuchs…She talks a big game but never a product…just breakthroughs and more needed funding until she retires.

    The Japanese…Let the world try the stuff before you ball fall off.

    So we bank on a maybe and hopefully. Too many bald men with beautiful women. Don’t wait..let the scientist come to you and make them produce real products and timelines.

    I know why am I here. Well, believe me in that I warn you of bullshit and simply keep you from HT’s and pharma drugs. You don’t know how lucky you are to not have been victimized and how much more you need to trully learn about women and what they crave. Work-out..studies show that people with subpar faces but great bodies look very attractive. Look at women with hot bodies and how you will forsake the looks for the body. The same holds true for women and thier perspective on men.

    You are all punishing yourself for nothing. In a nutshell F$%^ Cotsarelis and the rest and live. If they want the money bad enough and people accepted hairloss…they will produce or back and clone pigs. LIVE LIVE LIVE!!!

  • Shooter

    Guys, guys, guys. All of this mess because Intercytex flopped? Intercytex has been a failure for over a year, this is NOT news.

    Bosley is a terrible company, but hair transplantation is a terrible industry. Aderans is being run by people with hair transplants that want a cure. So that is a hopeful sign.

    As far as Follica, I am about as disappointed as anyone else… They led us on big time with the “1 year proof of concept results” bs. It’s been well over a year and they still have no idea if or how their product will work. So much for “working as fast as we can within the constraints of clinically driven medicine.”

    That being said, that is just the world we live in. We have to accept that this is going to be a wait and just stay positive until Aderans or Follica feel like giving us another straw to grasp at.

    All that other stuff like Luna, Whitfield, Mercola and ICX is just irrelevant. We shouldn’t let it affect our outlook.

  • A

    id love it if bossley cured hairloss none of you would ever say a word then. And hacked the ip addresses of every negative person on the internet and didnt provide them the cure would LOVE IT

  • qwerty

    R, what happened to all your insider information? LOL

    In the past you made out you conversed with Cotsarelis on the phone and had insider information on Mercola!

  • Squadoosh

    If the Maya’s were correct, all our problems will be solved in 2012. Long before either follica or aderans comes with a solution to hairloss.

    So, we should all live life while we still can!

  • OS

    WE should have a cure long ass time ago if we would listen to all the publicity from these f***ing companies

  • R

    They stopped communicating qwerty due to my sharing of information with this site which caused mass calls into the firm. Look, if you all would just try to live with a close shaved head you see that life is not that bad.

  • carl

    I think I have fairly accepted my hair loss. I am a pretty handsome guy, have had my share of great and beautiful women and rich meaningful relationships. At this stage, what I lack in hair I make up for in intelligent stimulating rap, and my knowledge of what women dig. As the saying goes” those that matter don’t mind, and those that mind, don’t matter”. A look of ecstasy is basically the same on the face of a model as it is on the ace of an”average” girl as it were. Count your blessings, smile( I know it’s hard sometimes), it will improve your looks. I think with all this crazy babble about a cure, somehow we are being fattened up for the buckletting(bloodletting), and when something comes out, we would be desperate to try and buy, and who needs that frustration. If there is something real out there, great, I will pay but not at the expense of my sanity or dignity.

  • carl

    I met a girl once whose hair was thinning, and I could tell she was self conscious and unhappy. We had a great conversation. As it turned out (and not surprisingly), she had a great intelligent, sexy mind, and our lovemaking was stupendous( I know this is more info than you need but indulge me). The next morning, we had breakfast, and she looked at me “thank you” she said, and I was dumbstruck that this beautiful women would say this to me. I cried like a sap, but told her about herself, her wonderful self, and we both had a laugh. We are in a great friendship right now, who knows what will blossom because we are discovering who we are on the inside, and not worrying about the cover. Wise up people, there are women and men out there as valuable and rare as any treasure you seek, and more available. peace and love.

  • Artista

    Thanks for sharing with us Carl

  • MyTake

    Here’s my take –

    I do think one of these places will find some sort of treatment. I decided to wait until 2010, when I turn 30 before seeking anything out. I’m interested, but normal. I have a wife, and what most would call a definite receding hairline but a relatively full head of hair (albeit thinning). I’ve been subconscious about my hair since my early 20’s so I used Rogaine for the past 6-7 years. It without a doubt kept hair on top of my head. That said, the hair has thinned, especially in the front. The back is relatively perfect for my age.

    I’m displeased with the way it looks. I’ve thought about hair transplant, but I won’t do that after what I’ve read. Atleast I won’t any time soon. Despite the fact, that I know for sure all I would need is one ‘good’ transplant to get the look I want. I won’t do it because I don’t believe ‘good’ can happen under my budget. So, that’s that.

    That leaves me with one alternative. Propecia. I wanted to avoid this because I have heard the negatives associated with it. Certainly, I believe that there are percentage of the public that are affected negatively. But, the plus is you can stop propecia. You can’t really reverse a negative hair transplant. Moreover, I have 2 close friends who have been on it for over a year. They love it, and I know it has worked for them.

    So, I look at the situation. I think there’s atleast 2 years until something comes out. ATLEAST 2.

    My plan…

    buy some time with propecia. Continue using Rogaine. Enjoy life.

    If there’s a new product next year… awesome. If not, I still have what’s left of my hair.

    This way, I will most likely not be on propecia for more than 3 to 5 years.

    ***Also, for those of you pushing the negatives of propecia and saying natural supplements are the way to go. I applaud you if you are happy and don’t think you are necessarily wrong about the negative consequences of propecia use. What I do think you should look into is the negative consequences of use of some supplements used as a DHT blocker. They can have MAY ‘also’ cause problems. Perhaps you should atleast be honest enough to admit that while stressing your preference.

  • OS

    you are 30, married, and have a good amount of hair….WTF r you doing here?!?!?!?! :S:S (talk about paranoia, hu?!) im 21 and im FUCKING bald!! and single… and as it seems its gonna stay like this forever :(

  • FUBAR

    R. give the pep talks a rest, people don’t need someone telling them what to do constantly.

  • J

    no kidding im 35 single,bald and miserable….

  • MyTake

    OS,

    I’m here, because, like you, I am balding. Yes, I’m not fully bald. But, that doesn’t make me any less self conscious about it than you are.

    I have a bad receding hairline. Some people have issues in the back of their heads. Personally, I’d trade the back for the front because Rogaine and Propecia work best in the back.

    If you understand what I am saying, the basic jist is, I can’t do anything about the receding hairline (because I am concerned about the issues with HT)…. but nevertheless the recession is reaching further and further back on my head. What I can do, is take propecia and rogaine for a year or two, hope it grows some in the frontal portion and try to hang on until something else comes out.

    I’ve read this site for months and everyone is so down on themselves, it’s depressing. I figured I’d provide another opinion. I’ll toss out this question, if you had a full head of hair, would you think you would not focus on another negative attribute of your looks?

    I think I would, because I’m being honest. Perhaps it wouldn’t be as bad. But, I think I’d focus on improving something else. I’m just as self conscious as anyone. The truth is, my wife doesn’t like how self conscious I am about my hair. She thinks it’s a turn off. I am not surprised that she feels that way, and I can see why it is. Yet, I’m the idiot who keeps doing it.

    But, I think I’m learning something here. Men don’t realize that women don’t see this issue the same way we do. It’s true they may (or may not) find a balding man less sexy than that same man with a full head of hair. But, what’s not true is they don’t ‘project’ like we do. They don’t go around thinking that guy is thinning hair and will be bald, or thinking that guy shaved his head because he’s balding. Instead they think, that guy is cute or he’s not. Period. For the most part they don’t know what it’s like to be going bald. They don’t think about what will happen.

    So, I think doing the best with what we have to make ourselves decent looking and comfortable enough within our own skin is all we can do…. that and learning to try to not be so hard on ourselves. We are just humans afterall.

  • OS

    there is always something to improve, but being totally bald at 21 isnt just another *thing*, its a FUCKING MAJOR **THING** dont you think?!?! its out there on your head for everyone to see, i feel marked… might aswell carry a sign wherever i go – “bad genes here”, what girl would date me at my age?? :S when i was receeding i didnt gave a fuck – and i was 17 at a time – you come here at 30?? and your not even bald… theres a HUGE diffrence betweeen us my friend…. like from the earth and sun and back.

  • J

    here is another side to look at..if your fat you can lose weight..too skinny you can gain weight..need muscle..work out. plenty of plastic surgery options too….but nothing NOTHING can fix balding!! you just got to live with it. so we need that option on the table!! I go through my life like this…if there is a problem? fix it!! sometimes there is a quick fix or long shitty fix…but at least there is always a fix!!! THERE IS NO FIX FOR BALDING YET!!! although im optomistic we should have something inn the near term from follica..if we dont then these guys are idiots. all the technology and they cant make hair yet??? even w stem cells?? wtf?? i dont get it…..

  • X

    There’s no cure for balding. Wear a wig, quit bitching and live with it for the next 5 yrs. Even with a head full of hair, you whiners would still suck at life. Maybe its not your lack of hair..maybe its your lack of manparts.

  • rev

    I didn’t know it was possible to cram so many dumb comments into such a short paragraph. Thanks for proving me wrong X.

  • X

    Revtard, you sir are a waste of oxygen. Kindly resign your membership of the human race.

  • rev

    Revtard? lol.
    You’re a lousy stalker. Go back to hairsite and wait for me to humiliate you there.

  • MyTake

    OS,

    I knew about 10 guys in college who shaved their head. All of these guys got chicks. Actually, one of them dated/married one of the prettiest girls I knew in college.

    I’m not trying to be mean, I’m trying to get you to realize, that yea, maybe some chicks don’t like the shaved head look, but that’s not the case for all of them. I guarantee you that if Brad Pitt shaved his head bald from this day forward, chicks would still swoon over him. Bruce Willis, and others seem to be doing well for themselves. Name a b-ball player and I’d bet 50% shave their head.

    Look, I don’t want to shave my head, but I made a deal with my wife, which she agreed to. I said if this gets bad enough, tell me to shave it because I probably won’t be able to tell. I’m probably about 2 years away from shaving my head every day. When I do, I’ll wish I had hair…. no doubt. But, I’ll probably just focus on beefing up my body to compensate instead of dwelling on things I can’t change.

    All I was saying to you, is I feel your pain. You are right, from the sounds of it, your case of balding is much worse than mine was. But, it is what it is. Just do the best you can to make yourself happy. Maybe shaving your head and hitting the gym for now is the best option. Just trying to help.

  • Artista

    Just a general statement to think about.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Sometimes people,,women AND men, have to just release their anxieties.Not looking for someone to give them all the answers. Be able to express themselves without fear of rejections,criticisms,rebuttals and the like.
    Some of you should consider this.

  • R

    Yes you are correct FUBAR, I have commented enough on subjects that anyone can research and grab the desired information. The basics of hairloss are being known and money is allocated to discover diverse mechanisms and approaches to solving this mess. Follica and Histogen are the world leaders and their formula compliments each other but a sllightly different twist. The earliest time frame is six years from now if everything goes well. Or….maybe earlier if done correctly in the international arena. However..the people here have a choice tokeep coming and bitch about hairloss or seek life. The ball is in your court and WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE WonTTTTTTTTTTTT HaveEEEEEE and product until 2015. So keep that in mind. Every new bit of data from Whoever????? will not beat 2015. If this fails, IF! you will see another 10-20 years of more bitching and hatred toward out beloved scientist. Good luck everyone and please keep hope alive. 2015 here we come!!!

  • A

    Speak for yourself 2015 only applies in america everyone knows any histogen release will be issued alot earlier then that in non us countries, so 2011 – 2013 here i come lol

  • OS

    outch :( 2015, why does it have to be so far :/ R some people cant get on with life becasue of baldness, it has the potential of destroying a guy’s social life…

  • R

    Life is too fragile and much opportunity is available to those that seek a happy outcome no matter the problem. You are allowing a common gene trait to stop your life in its tracks. There are many people with more devastating diseases that are more mature and vibrant than many of you here on the forum and they have a far greater life illness than you can imagine. None of you have tried to be outgoing and seek partnership with people and try the great attitude approach. You sit here and feel sorry for yourself and that is bullshit.

    Live and if you want to see a cure, believe me that it wont come soon enough. So stop this feeling sorry for yourself and try a vibrant life style. Too many over weight, ugly, bald etc……… have found happiness and love.

    This is sad that cancer and many other victims of life diseases don’t portray such lack luster attitudes on life than this balding forum. You and everyone here needs to seek alternative measures to find happiness.

  • OS

    You think i didnt tried?!?!?!!? i get constantly rejected!!! what are you talking about this mombojombo about positive attidue! ofc i tried, i can safely say that i didnt best before it went down, women just dont like bald guys !! or atleast young women!! trust m on this R!

  • J

    R i see your point but the truth and harsh reality is that most women these days are shallow and materialistic…thats the whole point of plastic surgery and why people constantly try to look better…the point is we would just like to be ourselves again and have the choice to be bald or not. obviously at this time we dont have a choice. im hoping you are wrong and something comes out before 2015!!! if something comes out before then i dont care if it is in china and cost 100k im going immediatly!!!!!!!!

  • rs

    Any news or anticipated announcements about results from human trials?

    It has been almost two years since they stated it could be two years when their might be a commercial option. I just would like to find out how the initial human studies have faired. Someone, must know someone who is part of a clinical trial and either they now either have hair or they do not.

  • washington

    clinic already this using stemcell for hair growth… somebody has information on this? http://www.ddrheinrich.com

  • R

    No enough data and sounds too good to be true! If this was real and works!!! We would see the product on the market and sold everywhere. These doctors prey on weak customers and you did the right thing Washington by posting this website. This site helps in stopping people from purchasing inferior products.

  • Metsie

    Very true R. Thats the next snake oil pitch. Companys are just going to slap the “stem cell” label on some new miracle shampoo or cream.
    On that note I’m seeing a commercial for testing company in N.J., paramus I think, looking for volunteers for stem cell hair loss testing. I’m not that desperate but if anybody wants it I’ll try to write down the #

  • washington

    also I do not believe total this treatment, and doctor, but, all new information deserves some inquiry…

  • Prometheus

    Im here to state how mad! I am at all of you and myself.

    I fell hook line and sinker for all the nonsense hype of oh the cure is right around the corner. Once that msnbc follica interview hit over a year ago(I think) EVERYONE and their dog began to post as if they were experts and I ate it all up.

    You all began stating that we would definitely have a cure/great treatment within 5 years but more likely 2-3 years.

    Its all b.s. we are not close at all and I have just accepted this. Im not accepting hairloss but I have accepted that a 5 year timeline is EXTREMELY unlikely and those of u STILL speaking of a possible 2 year thing are just plain lying to yourselves.

    I put too much stock in the posts I read online. Since the experts still dont really understand hair loss or how to cure it I nor any other sane individual should be listening to any time lines given by our peers..I mean how many of you have a degree in biochemistry/biology or genetics. I m gonna say probably .001 % of all hair loss posters are that educated.

    Sorry for the downer post but Im just pissed. I hope a young billionaire is struck w baldness and it bothers him ..thats our best hop imo :)

  • will

    It’s hard to say that it’s a long time away or a short time away, but i do know there is hardly a conspiracy involved that is working against us. The beauty of capitalism is that it seems potential in making a large amount of money off hair loss, companies are trying. It’s not like they haven’t seen improvements. It’s only a matter of time where baldness will be an option. I doubt it’s going to be here in the next three years and i doubt five. But if you look at it like this there are even vaccines on the pipeline for aids. We are learning a lot more and it seems like every year a new company is out saying they found another link to hair loss. These links aren’t being hidden from other companies, it’s open. I say we give it time and guys if you’re having trouble finding girls join dating websites. I doubt the problem is your hair for the reason of you not getting girls. It’s the hair telling you you can’t get the girl before you really try with confidence. I’m serious i see bald headed guys with girls all the time and pretty girls, but if your focusing on just getting a pretty girl than you’re just as vain as the girls who reject you because of your hair. It’s like wake up be introspective find the real route to your problem not the hair roots

  • happy1
  • Marina

    People keep writting about Intercytex they were out this race for me, until I found this http://www.ehow.com/way_5415673_intercytex-baldness-cure.html

  • will

    they’re starting to do testing in the next town over from me for stem cell being the cure for baldness. I was wondering if i should sign up for trials?

  • G

    will, who has started testing? Intercytex?

  • E

    The last one following the trials race might have been proven to be Intercytex. See what I read online some days ago.

    Thank you for your email. As you may be aware, Intercytex is currently in discussion with a number of potential acquirers for certain assets of the business http://www.intercytex.com/icx/news/releases/2009/2009-07-01/.

    Therefore we are unable to comment on the future plan for any of our products until these discussions are complete. I can however confirm that we do not currently have any products available on the market, and we are not currently conducting any clinical trials.

    We cannot confirm when we expect the strategic review to be complete, and therefore I suggest that you regularly check for updates on our website http://www.intercytex.com.

    Thank you & best regards,

  • JS

    I don’t really know what to think about this company, but it’s worth putting it here for you all to see.

    http://www.trichoscience.com/procedure.php

    It was posted on Hairsite and nobody has been able to find much information about them so far. Shooter is usually good at finding things out about companies so maybe he’ll have some idea.

  • vlad

    Im probably just trippin but remember that thomas whitfield guy, didnt the T in his TRX2 thing stand for tricho. Just read on hairsite that theyve been doing tests in Germany…

  • D

    trichoscience looks like a scam.
    I haven`t heard anything from TRX2. Whitfield`s probably a conman too, then again if an an Oxford PhD student is willing to place his reputation on the line then its probably for a very good reason.

  • rev

    TrichoScience seems to parallel the research done by intercytex or perhaps aderans, and they have a legitimate medical team.
    http://www.trichoscience.com/medical_team.php

    I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until they release data from their upcoming human trials.

  • R

    If its worth its weight in gold…you will hear something. Sad that we just heard of this in the almost ten years of development????

  • rev

    Not everyone runs their outfit like Dr.Mercola.

  • R

    Almost all of them run their outfit like Dr. Mercola. Hence the subpar results and answers for the past millenia. Nobody knows or can state when or who will succeeed. The past has shown that 99.9999% will fail. We are based on hope with new technology, that is all we have. We are weak and have no voice other wonder and hope. Remember this when you read, bitch or post. So far we have words and wonder, nothing more. Now we wait!

  • J

    R??? what happened to all that “the end is near” talk u used to say…I find it hard to believe that we wont have some sort of option for treatment in the next 3 yrs somewhere in the world….

  • rev

    I warned R, long ago, to avoid being preachy. Now he’s back-peddling out of some previous claims. I have yet to see things work out well for anyone boasting intimate knowledge of timelines and outcomes in this business. One day you’re a prophet; the next day you’re a pariah.

  • JS

    I find it strange that there is so much negativity towards Follica around at the moment, i know they aren’t taking us by the hand and walking us through every step of their development but i’ve seen nothing from them that suggests they’re having problems.

    It must be about 18 months since they had that segment on MSNBC in which the doctor who had been interviewing them said they would be doing human trials in the next year or two and if everything went perfectly it would have a treatment ready for market in 3 or 4 years or maybe even sooner.

    Now bearing in mind how little we actually know about what’s going on behind the scenes at any of these companies, just look at TrichoScience they seem to have appeared out of nowhere and by the looks of things have been doing research for quite some time without many people knowing. So instead of making up timelines for companies why don’t we wait until we have all the facts, then we can say when they will or will not have something to help us.

  • R

    The comment and facts are that we don’t know and if a product was coming in three years, you would have a large population being tested right now. My comments are based on the reality that if something big was coming soon, you would see major leaps by these companies and huge test population being treated. No such tests are here today and if INTERCYTEX HAD SOMETHING BIG BILLLIONS????? THAN YOU WOULD HAVE BUYERS. Instead, they are begging for money.

    So yes I preach… but I am realistic and see much work ahead. Follica made an error in judgement with announcement and we arew seeing them back track timelines. They too hit a snag and believe me…you are wasting your time waiting for 3 years. Bet on 12 or more. I was optimistic but see the reality of the results.

    Dream all you want but where are the large test population? We are the results of these populations? Now…what is the short and long-term safety? Much to learn people and you must be realistc.

  • Maverick

    R, Histogen is in the game too.

  • J

    R,..what the hell are you talking about???? NOW YOUR SAYING 12YRS?? HOLY CRAP TALK ABOUT FLIP FLOPPING!!!!! HOW THE HELL CAN YOU SAY 12YRS?? there is no way after all that news coverage that follica is going to take longer than 5yrs!! NO WAY!!!

  • Squadoosh

    Errr, I would take at least 10 years for anything better than propecia to come out.

    Histogen will fail, just like all the others. Not long ago they were begging for investors, you don’t hear anything about that anymore, how weird.

    Histogen will be broke as a joke on coke by the end of 2011, I bet.

    Nothing big comes out before 2020, trust me.

  • Artista

    “..as a joke on coke” ? anyone care to decipher this one? Squadoosh,, please share with us the info you have that explain this statement made by you ~”Histogen will fail, just like all the others” Where did you read that anyone failed as yet? Would love to see it. Or is this your personal review?

  • R

    My comments will change as evidence presents itself. You need to understand that $ BILLIONS of dollars are the results for a cure so money is a motivator. The lagging indicator is a consistent and viable product. If any of these products work as good as stated and shown to be well introduced in the interim, then why beg for money?

    There is something sidelining these experts and the lack of need or real investors (with a bonifide) product in hand is not a deterent if a product is as good and consistent. The raod blocks to innovation is the lack of consistent product outcome, consumer need, niche market etc…

    We have the consumer need, the market, and much money to be made. But, where are the investors? And why if the product and the knowledge that a cure or real treatment will bring in billions still have to beg for monetary support? There are many claims but not enough evidence. Histogen is the only company sharing their data. There are many others quiet and talking out of their ass.

    You can wish and call me names but the fact of the matter is that we dont have enough data, investors or consistentcy to warrant happiness. Mercola just showed me he is a brain dead liar. Follica must of hit a snag, the rest speak without investments for a product.

    Look…just understand that you are wasting much time here. The joke is that they probably want to see who stays the longest. Maybe I am wrong, but I am here to share advice and experiences. Good luck!

  • Artista

    apparently it seems that YOU may be the one that stays the longest R. No offense meant by this commentary

  • Squadoosh

    Artista,

    Which reason could a company possibly have to be silent, except from being up against a big wall they can’t climb over?

    Just forget about all this. I check every few days here, but people tend to read this site every hour of the day. Why? God knows. Things are going very, VERY slow and no info is given about any progress. Yeh, except for Histogen, but they have financial problems and a lawsuit against them so forget about them.

    We’ll all die bald and we all should not care about it. Live life, just like R said.

  • J

    Follica never had to beg for money….and why would someone say they have a procedure if they dont, how does that benefit anyone??? it doesnt….I think Follica will come through for us. If they are not doing trials then what the hell are they doing this whole time??? we were all doing the same thing before when they were quite….lets just wait and see!! and if they dont have something within 5yrs for us…then I say we all hunt cotserelis down and beat his greek ass!!!! CAUSE THEN HELL DESERVE IT FOR GETTING US ALL EXCITED!!

  • Artista

    Hey ZZ, why do you think people here become so pessimistic so quickly? We ALL want an answer/a treatment/a ‘cure’ overnight its true. I guess my question was more rhetorical than anything else. Guys, hang in there.

  • ZZ

    Artista,

    I think its just impatience and frustration and I think many people derive hope and energy each time they get a tid bit of positive information. But the farther we get from the latest positive update, the worse it gets. Many people keep pulling exaggerated time lines out of their ass and then using it to get depressed. But from the info I have read both Histogen & Follica are estimating possible commercial availability by 2015…..if all goes well. Absolutely nothing has changed that I am aware of. You and I have said we expect it will be 2-3 years before we see undeniable pictures from a credible player of proof of success in developing a treatment that absolutely & consistently works. And then another 2 years for FDA approval, maybe sooner. It is very hard to wait and I’m sure harder for some than others but the sky is not falling. Histogen had a very positive trial, Follica hired a legitimate CEO after what they referred to as a positive proof of concept, and there are other new positive pieces of the puzzle being discovered all the time…..many new pluses this year. If we get a trial where someone develops skin cancer then I’ll get worried. Many of these legitimate companies could be just 1 piece or 1 protein away from success so if I were them, I wouldn’t be disclosing much either. If anyone is reading any of these research reports at least somewhat in depth, the other thing to remember is that follicle stem cells are being used as a research organ on the path to a much greater overall purpose….the regeneration of more critical organs. So there is a force ( and $$) behind this research that I do not believe can be stopped. We all just need to maintain some perspective.

  • Artista

    thanks for the input ZZ, I certainly hope that others here read your words and as you said ‘maintain some perspective’ on all of this. Making assumptions here doesn’t help anyone.

  • Practical

    How’s the PRP working ZZ? I had it in early May. It’s working very well for me. I’ve quit using avodart and still have very little shedding. Hair is getting thicker all over the top of the scalp. I may get another treatment at 8 months to make sure the effects stay at a maximum. Hopefully the results are compounded.

  • Dai
  • ZZ

    Practical,

    Nothing from my treatment. Who did yours? I will say that I have since been told by an orthopedic doctor that when you use prp you should not take nasids (advil, naproxen, etc) for at least 6 weeks afteward as it counteracts the treatment. I did not know that. Can you tell me who did your treatment?

  • jordan

    so were looking at 5 years bacially by what we hear! i was wondering in we could get an fue transplant in the worse area and then use follica or histogen (which ever is avaiable first) to maximise our results?

    what do you guys think of this? would the treatment still work as well even if you have 500 – 1000 grafts implanted?

  • Practical

    ZZ..Dr. Greco did mine. I did the 2nd generation which is supposed to last longer. What’s your regimen? My goal with the treatment was to get off fin and still be able to keep what I have. Not long after the prp treatment I started using avodart thinking the different mechanism of action would somehow have less bloating effects than fin. It was the same. Since prp takes 4 months to work I used avodart the whole time after the prp until two weeks ago. I started noticing hardly any fallout and increased thickness about a month ago. Actually I forgot I even had the treatment because I wasn’t prepared to go off avodart for fear of losing ground. So I sort of put two and two together and tried stopping avodart. Since I did that two weeks ago I still have hardly any fallout- may 2-4 strands during shampoo and one at the most applying minoxidil. I also use folligen, emu oil and crinigen. We’ll see how it goes. Staying off avodart while maintaining hair count is the goal. The whole thing is such a contant battle. My money is on Histogen.

  • ZZ

    Practical,

    My goal is to stop further loss until someone comes thru for us. I will stay on fin until we have a solid treatment. I think regrowing any significant amount of hair with what is available today is rare. I use fin, minox and much of R’s natural regimen. No side effects for me with fin. I tried dut for 18 months but I believe it caused major shedding and got off of it several months ago. I did not know prp took 4 months to work. Personally, I don’t believe the plus in PRP plus does anything and could be a negative. According to the orthopods I have talked to, a matrix is only used as a scaffold to hold the prp in a cavity (i.e.knee joint). Using it in the scalp likely does little good and b/c the injection is no longer 100% prp, the active ingredients are diluted b/c the injection is now part prp & part protein. Feller follows this line of thinking. But there are many points of view and I believe each of us should do whatever works for us. It is very difficult to tell what works and what doesn’t b/c all current options take time and if you are on more than 1 treatment it is even more difficult to tell what is benefiting you. Good Luck and don’t lose your positive outlook.

  • Artista

    I find the whole PRP treatment a bit fascinating and hope the best for you 2 guys.Maybe there are others here who also have went in for that particular treatment and can share their experiences.

  • friend in need

    I’m thinking about going off of fin because i feel like eating really healthy has helped but I’m worried about it because I really don’t want to lose anything that fin helped me keep, not sure how much that is.

    But what I was hoping someone could tell me is that if I stop taking fin and I notice that I’m starting to have fallout again…can I just start using it again and it will go back to how it was before?

    Thanks

  • R

    Try the MPB website and the natural supplements reported to work as well and or better than pharma stuff. My personal experience after off Finersteride for about a year is that the natural approach works and others have had similar results here. Your choice but with any approach, you must guage your hairloss / speed and associated predetermined pattern which NW 5, 6, 7 are usually noticed and achieved before your out of your 20’s and or early 30’s to ultimately guess the success rate.

    For example…a person who’s geneic makeup takes him to a NW 5-7 will have the least results compared to a NW 1-4. Including the VII etc.. I hope it works and any loss of hair within 5-8 years is reported to be replinished and return. I read that Elaine Fuchs useda strong anti-imflamm on a guy who was balding severly (NW6) for over forty years and got his hair back full head!!! So you must be realistic and any anti-inflammatory of that level is dangerous. Always use natural and if you can swing it for now..shave close and live.

  • A

    To the dude that had PRP with massive success, are you sure that you wasnt just a super Dut responder. You might have made a big mistake going off it.

  • Practical

    Thanks for the info ZZ. Since I plan on getting PRP every 8 months I’ll consider doing the 1st generation from now on. I don’t want to limit the effects in any way. Dr. Greco said the 4th month is when it starts its peak effects.

    Believe me A I’ve thought about that. I hope that’s not the case and we’ll see. The bloating on dut can get bad but will go back on it in a heartbeat if I notice increased shedding and thinning. Up to this point the only thing I know 100% sure is that dut and fin work very well. All the natural stuff is good to take but if that were the answer there would be no such thing as MPB. I’ll keep giving updates on how I’m doing not taking fin or dut.

    Friend in need- I wouldn’t quit taking fin if I were you. Unless you try something like PRP and get amazing results (which I’m not ready to say my results are amazing yet) if you quit taking fin you will shed big time and get right back on it. There is no guarantee you’ll go back to where you are now.

  • R

    Sorry everyone but the pharma group really got you confused. I have and others stoppoed FIN and DUT with great success and regrowth. It is not a cure, nothing is right now but it works better for me and shown better improvement. Blanket statements are dangerous. You will never know unless you try the natural way. PRP is new and I would proceed with caution.

  • will

    Honestly propecia worked for me quite well. I do believe it works for the majority, but it’s the complications with it that is the problem. Is it good for you? It most certainly is not and some people it will most likely not cause harm and other people it might do severe damage, you decide whether you want the risk. As for staying healthy im sure that helps a little, but in my opinion balding is really a part of evolution, everyone is going bald. I think that the only thing we can really depend on is stem cells, hair cloning, regencia, follica. Otherwise everything else is just prolonging the inevitable. And you have to ask yourself this, why don’t i just wait?

  • A

    Natural hairloss cures WILL NOT stop hairloss. If it was that simple propecia and Minox would not exist and everyone would pop there pills everyday and wait for regrowth, you are dilusional people

  • jordan

    so do we have any updates from follica or histogen??

  • friend in need

    hey R or anyone else that can help,

    I’m in my early 20’s and have been on fin for around two years without any side effects. My only worry after reading all the health problems that it could cause that it might be doing damage that I just don’t notice yet.

    I have recently stopped taking fin and about a year ago i started eating very healthy which I think has helped my hair. I plan to keep eating healthy and taking a few supplements in hopes that it keeps my hair healthy and stops it from shedding. I may choose to go back on fin if I start seeing noticeable shedding…

    I’m only a NW1 and have pretty good coverage but have some thinning on the hairline and somewhat on the top of my head, but it’s not to the point that I can’t style it to hide it…yet…

    My diet consists of taking centrum multi vitamin, omega 3-6-9 complex, and super B complex supplements every day

    along with eating plenty of vegetables every day including a glass of 100% grape juice, 100% vegetable juice, and 2 to 3 glasses of 100% natural green tea every day

    Just wondering if there are other supplements or foods/drinks/exercises/ANYTHING I should be doing to possibly help regrow or at least maintain my hair?

    Sorry for such a long message and thank you for any help you can provide me with.

  • jordan

    can someone pose the link to the mpb website so i can read up on natural treatments. thanks

  • Metsie

    Great way to hide the cranium. Stick a rabbit on your head, from a distance it looks like hares.
    Just kidding, hang in there guys, silence is a good thing.

  • Artista

    I have my ups and downs when it comes to my own hairloss. There was a few family pics that my sis-in-law had sent to me a few months ago. Some taken from the late 80s and early 90s. You guys know to what i am implying. Really i am not hoping or expecting to once again don the hairline that i had when i as so much younger. A fill in ,,a reasonable fill in is oK by me. Lets all hang in there.

  • will

    I wish follica would report how they’re doing. I don’t see how silence right now could be a good thing. I mean is there honestly no evidence of it working yet on a human head? Histogen’s results were great in my opinion and that wasn’t after repeated attempts with regencia. I believe correct my if im wrong,it was only applied once that that particular head which they viewed to the public.

  • Metsie

    Will, this is a huge competition for big $$$. No one wants to show their progress if they dont have to. Histrogen has been very quiet since those pics. Perhaps they showed initial progress because they are trying to secure more funds. Waiting sucks but its a fact of life.
    I dont know the laws regarding disclosure of Phase trials but I hope they are on II or III by now.

  • R
  • Artista

    Thanks R ,,that is a good site.

  • Rx

    Albeit overpriced. All that stuff can be found other places online for alot less.

  • A

    For all the patents and all the studies there is not one picture on that website confirming any hair regrowth at all lol

  • Rx

    A- what’s your regimen?

  • A

    1 mg propecia daily
    2ml minoxidil daily
    nizoral 2 – 3 times weekly.

    If you want to slow/stop hairloss with a chance to regrow some dying follicles with TRUSTED results backed by both science and picture evidence you simply must be on the big 3, for over 1 year now we hear about natural approach but have never seen one picture evidence to suggest this works.

  • R

    I have tried the pharma stuff years and I can tell that since I quit and used only natural stuff. the results are just as good or better. Again, people talking without experimenting like me. I have true knowledge. Do what works but at least try.

  • Metsie

    TKL Research in Paramus NJ taking volunteers for stem cell hair testing. Apparently its a research co. that does testing for clients. Dont know who hired them but if you dont mind being a gunea pig go for it. Dont know the # to call but they have a # on the web site.

  • MMA

    Hey Metsie !! Can you post the website ?¿?

  • rev

    it’s tklresearch.com/sCalendar.html

  • Metsie

    Thats the 1 Rev
    They have been running a commercial for about a month soliciting volunteers, so they must be gearing up soon. Lets hope for the best.

  • ZZ

    I called the number form the web site. This appears to be the Aderans trial. The site lists the trial as ongoing and the procedure they describe sounds exactly like Aderans. It is not a placebo based or double blind FDA type of study. Everyone gets the real procedure, you cannot be on current hairloss meds and it is for the crown and not the front. Sounds like they may be making slight modifications to the procedure on the fly in trying to determine what works best (assuming that it works at all).

  • Artista

    Great info ZZ ,,thanks as always. I went to that site and requested more info as well as offering myself as another lab rat,,lol. Hey what the heck…

  • ZZ

    FYI When I told them I was on meds and couldn’t participate (not that I would at this stage)they asked if I wanted to go on a list in case a follow up trial allowed those using meds to participate. I declined for now. I believe the trial calls for 13 visits. If anyone else decides to call (the lady was very nice), can you ask if there is any internal feedback on the results yet?

  • jordan

    Does anybody know when follica plan to bring their product to market?

    Has anyone else heard any updates?

    Thanks

  • Artista

    Not me Jordan

  • Artista

    Not me Jordan sorry

  • ZZ

    On-line investment presentation by Histogen…..see invitation details below:

    You are Invited to Attend an Online Presentation: The Histogen Investment Opportunity

    As a friend of Histogen, you may be aware that the Company is currently seeking to close its Series A financing to begin a pivotal clinical trial of the Hair Stimulating Complex (HSC). Due to the large number of inquires we have received following the announcement of our preliminary clinical trial results (which showed statistical significance at three efficacy endpoints), we will be presenting the trial data and investment opportunity in an online setting for the first time.

    We appreciate the opportunity to share our story, and look forward to connecting with you in this casual online setting! We hope you will assist us by sharing this invitation with those you feel may be interested!

    WHEN:

    Wednesday, October 7th, 4:00-4:30pm PT/7:00-7:30pm ET

    PRESENTATION OVERVIEW:

    Histogen CEO Gail K. Naughton, Ph.D., will present:

    · An overview of Histogen’s technology and product portfolio

    · Results of the preliminary clinical trial of HSC for hair regrowth

    · Plans for future trials and market introductions

    · An introduction to the Series A investment opportunity

    As space is limited, please RSVP to Eileen Naughton Brandt at enaughton@histogeninc.com with the date of the presentation you will be attending.

    Thank you, and we look forward to connecting with you soon!

  • Maverick
  • rev

    They’re like a Canadian/German version of InterCytex. They have a reputable team, and they claim their product works, BUT they just started human trials, so I wouldn’t hold my breathe just yet.

  • Artista

    You have to be cautious when a company makes those type of claims but no clinical trial/picture proof to back it up.

  • Maverick

    They´ve said they have or will start clinical trials in Europe Sep this year. Some very famous names are in that medical team, their name and rep is at stake now.

    http://www.trichoscience.com/corporate_news.php

  • ZZ

    I sent an email to Buderi suggesting that trichoscience might be a good story to check out. It could be another player or just a another dose of BS. I am going to log on to the Histogen presentation today so I will let you know if I hear anything interesting.

  • MMA

    Hey ZZ how was it?? I couldn´t make the reservation on time.

  • ZZ

    MMA It is tonight at 7:00 pm eastern time. They had originally listed it as am. So you should still be able to make it.

  • jordan

    tricho science is a bit expensive.. where histogen said around $5000?

    have they give a time line?

  • ZZ

    Update on Histogen Investment presentation: Very interesting. The quick take-away is that they are on a fast track. They have raised $4.4 million in series A funding and are looking for another $2.3 million in series A. Then they will immediately start raising series B funding. The series A $$ will be used to keep things moving and design an asian clinical trial. The series B funding will be used to create a manufacturing facility and to conduct the asian trial which would consist of 300 subjects. If the asian trial is succesful, they can go directly to market in asia, excluding Japan….no more waiting. Then they will look to the US. They showed 2 photos at the 5 month mark with the average increase in hair being over 20% with a single injection…..some over 40%. The photos, like those seen on their website, are of an area the size a nickel. A 20% increase in this nickel sized area was equivalent to 100 additional hairs. They say there were absolutely no safety issues and they feel like they can increase the effectivenes with multiple injections or by increasing the dosage. Keep in mind this was an investment raising presentation but they painted a very promising picture. They are waiting for a ruling on their lawsuit motion for Summary Judgement. HSC is not a subject of the lawsuit. If the bottom doesn’t fall out over some type of safety issue, this is definitely a very major step forward.

  • rev

    Many thanks for all the great updates ZZ.

  • jordan

    good news at last. hang in there guys

  • Hierro

    Hey im about to turn 26……ZZ , Maverick or the other experts … by your opinion how much time do you think theres gonna be a product in the US ? ( histogen or trichscience) i need this so bad i dont care if i have to pay 10- 15 k im sooooooooo sick of propecia , how much time do human trials take?? if they know it works why cant they just lets us inject our heads so we can be happy geeez

  • D

    Well if they’re trying to raise capital then they’ll obviously paint investors the happiest picture possible. Realistically, how soon do you think they’ll get on the Asian market?

  • Artista

    It sure would be nice to see clinical trial pics to back up the claims. I wish i had been available for that Online Presentation. I dont doubt it seemed promising ZZ. Lets all have very guarded hope.

  • jordan

    if you dont care about paying 10 – 15k why dont you go and get a HT if you want hair that bad?

  • Hierro

    I dont want a HT thats so primitive is almost 2010! just because im willing to spend 10-15k doesnt mean im rich and i want something that really works HT is a thing of the past and its a painfull,nasty, complicated suurgery that look bad in 70 percent of people that done it and its only gonna increasy my hair density i want a full hair of hair grrr i wonder if i can make this whole stem cell thing on my own.. lol

  • ZZ

    I agree with Artista that we should have guarded hope. I have submitted 10 follow up questions to Histogen, based on the presentation, and am awaiting the answers. From an investment standpoint this would certainly be high on the risk scale. One of the major things I don’t understand is why they seem to be having trouble raising funds since, as far as we know, Histogen is the only player with any actual positive human results. It makes me wonder if the smart venture money knows something we don’t. Whatever happens, they certainly appear focused and motivated.

    My guess is that asian approval is only 2 to 3 years away, IF they get funding quickly and IF all goes well. If their recent test results are legitimate and continue to be safe at higher concentrations, this will take hair restoration to an entirely new level. We are still a ways out but I find the prospects and increasing legitimacy very comforting. Among many questions to be answered is how effective it will be if you have very little hair. 20-40% of zero is still zero. I will keep you posted.

  • JS

    ZZ, maybe Follica are closer than people think to delivering a treatment and that’s why the smart venture money isn’t flooding to Histogen. I know Follica aren’t the most open of companies, but that doesn’t mean they are failing.

  • ZZ

    I couldn’t agree with you more JS. Also, my guess is that one of Histogen’s problems is that Histogen is the second try for Gail Naughton. Her first company, Advanced Tissue Sciences, (I believe based on much of the same research they are using at Histogen)went bankrupt in 2002 after 14 years. The current lawsuit stems from patents acquired in that bankruptcy. But I don’t hold it against them. I admire their tenacity. Time will tell.

  • Artista

    I thought about going to one of the balding blog sites to ask this question but, why not here? This question is totally unrelated to our usual format/chat but why not fill in the void with it.
    What exactly has David Letterman done to fill in the hairloss he has ? You see him all over the news now because of the sex scandal( who cares really?)so his pics are in your face. Its very obvious SOMETHING was done. Hey, i would be happy to achieve a fuller volume like that.
    What does all here know or think? Is it a hairpiece or HT/FUEs? I think its the later. It seems that no one talks about it much. Springsteen had great work done too by the way. Of course these are men with vast amounts of money to use.

  • Sasba

    “It’s all preliminary at the moment,” says Cotsarelis, who has helped to set up a company, Follica, that will attempt to bring the idea to market. “If it all went perfectly then possibly in two to three years we would have a product, but that’s very optimistic.”

    Three years are now…Cotsarelis, it’is not right playing with people’s desease!!!

  • jordan

    i personally think follica have hit a road block and thats why they havent said anyting…. if you have good news you let people know end of!

  • James

    No News is good news….

    If they had hit rock bottom, we would know about it, I.e People bailing ship.

    The fact is not one pesron has left instead the company has continued over the last year to recruit new faces.

    May 1st New CEO, New company direction, Follica policy has always been one of silence there has never been a period where they have been media frantic, instead they have remained consistent.

    Coteralis has been approached by te media and he has speculated…. people take this speculation to heart, but its easy to pin your hopes to someones statements when they are the only words coming from soneone directly involved.

    Remeber Follica are a business entity there purpose is to make as much money as poosible. They had no problem securing private investment, in fact securing more than they needed, they are not trying to fast track anything, and are working, we have seen there patent issuance’s and recruitment of new science all of which says postive things

    I speculate that there will be another tit bit of media iformation on follica in the coming 6 months.

    So in light of no new recent new, I would suggest that people take heart that…

    Follica…

    Appointed a new CEO and has increased its board of directors.
    Appointed more scienctists
    Produced new patents
    Not released any bad news

    Intercytex

    Have proved proof of concept you can generate new hair, if you were to have 20,000 injections of intercytex you might just get a bit of hair,
    Not one company that we know of has purchased the TRC product, and i speculate that it is because most company’s are now following new routes with HM

    Egyptian Scientist this year used stem cell hair technology to reverse alopecia aretra in children, and is now filing for a study on MPB.

    Tricho-Science have been formed, suprising alot of people because they are well financed, well backed, and with some familar faces. Headed by an oil tycoon, who want to make a buck or two at the very least its another iron in the fire, phase I commencing

    Aderans, would appear to be nearing the 6 month mark of phase II and one could speculate at the information available and new adverts requiring new patients that they are in fact altering there approach.

    This could be for a number of reasons perhaps they stumbled across something miraculous that they didnt start the ordignal volunteers off and want to incorporate, or perhaps phase II wasnt working and they just figured out why
    The fact they are continuing with a large sample is very promising, and even more people on differetn methods, of HM is just adding to the research pot. Which in time will all be for the greater good.

    Histogen, are the most vocal, and the ones that smell the most risky, constanst cry for money constant need to be in the public eye. They released some debatable evidence and would appear to get on well with HT industry. WWe all wish them the best.

    Austrailia have a company working on HM although they state we are a decade away, as do Japan.

    There a re whole host of other companys developing anti adrodgen creams and treatments

    Its been decades since anything revoluionary and if anything were less than a decade away from something new. (My view)

    For those who are trying to keep what you have for the mean time I suggest

    http://www.immortalhair.org a forum dedicated to a scientific approach of deduction, very interesting in general health and well being at the very least… very uptodate

    http://www.hairloss-research.org reconfirms immortal hair on the most part – fairly concise

    They would appear to hold merit especially for aging related MPB but remember these things take time most of these natural regimes are tried by very few for a few months instead of a few years and will unfortnately never have the comparability against Finestride and Minioxidl which love them or hate them are the only substance to have had hundreds of millions of dollars spent on them to get that seal of approval.

    If you are taking Finestride – Some of your side effects if your prone can be caused by elevated estrogen

    look into Arimidex an aromtase that deals with estrogen also look at DIM. There a number of supplements and drugs that can balance hormones.

    Good Luck, Stay patient
    Do what works for you.

    Placebo is better than nothing, expecially when all other methods have been tried.

  • billy

    excellent post james :D

  • Metsie

    Seriously, anybody who thinks Follica lied, failed etc… please read above. Very fair honest analysis James, really a Cliffs Notes of everything that has transpired thus far.

  • jordan

    i think within a years time from now we will know where we stand with real timelines

  • ZZ

    Good to hear from you James. Great summary!

  • washington

    excellent post james …I think that up to 2025 follica it shows something on its treatment of wnt.

  • Maverick

    I hope something will be available sooner than 2025.

  • MMA

    http://snk.aes-int.cn/foot/291033 What do u think about this?

  • MMA

    http://snk.aes-int.cn/foot/291033 What do u think about it?

  • jordan

    course we will have better treatment by then! maybe be 1 year or 3! but you are very negitive!!

  • Shooter

    Hey guys,

    So Trx-2 (Thomas Whitfield start-up) has been notorious for not really responding to emails and not answering public queries. Most people, including myself, are not expecting much to come out of this “too good to be true” technology.

    While my stance hasn’t changed really, I did recently get a response to one of my questions (although not an answer). No new information, but it does mean they haven’t shut the doors. Thought you guys might want to see it:

    “Thanks a lot for contacting us. Please realize that our team currently
    receives more than 2,000 e-mail per week. This means that we read
    everything that comes in, but there are times when we cannot respond
    to each. We will release an update of TRX2 soon – in the meanwhile
    please signup for our newsletter at http://www.trx2.com and stay tuned. Thank
    you for your understanding.

    Dr. Thomas Whitfield
    Vice President R&D
    Oxford BioLabs Ltd.”

    Hopefully “soon” = less than five years and an “update” = useful, positive information.

  • washington

    they understand, clearly that we will have something before 2015, but nothing through follica. aderans, intercytex, trischoscience, perhaps… less follica.

  • JS

    Maybe Dr Whitfield has found out what many people before him have found out, and that is hair loss isn’t the easiest thing in the world to cure.

    I guess we can forget about their original claim of having something ready in 12 months. I’m still curious to see what it is he has though. We’re not really in a position to ignore it.

  • Jacks

    Wanna work for Dr. Thomas Whitfield.

    http://www.odesk.com/jobs/Personal-Assistant_~~85070ac78050ae05

    Contact
    Interested applicants should apply with the following documents:
    1) full CV
    3) A short essay (250 – 400 words) along the following topic: “What can I do in order to prevent loosing my hair?”

    There are 2 more jobs from him..

  • Squadoosh

    LOL @ that job for PA:

    “full-time (40h/week) personal assistant”
    “Compensation USD 280/month”

    He’s looking to get some skilled staff alright!

  • NewbieQ

    I have a question…

    Why is Hair Transplantation off the table?

    Let me elaborate, I know the current Hair Transplants are pretty bad. The negatives are four fold…

    1. You may not have enough donor hair
    2. It leaves a scar
    3. The look isn’t always fantastic.
    4. Money

    Let’s assume 3 has to do with 1. In other words, for the sake of argument, let’s assume that the look isn’t great because there is not always enough donor hair.

    Why couldn’t the next step be a new (scarless) technique for extracting hairs and multiplying them outside of the head? Then of course, implanting them back in.

    At first, the money issue would remain, but I believe all the other issues would fade and over time the monetary issue would too.

    Thoughts? Is this already in the works?

  • Artista

    Hi ‘Newbie’ Great thought process and yes that is indeed in the works. Hair multiplication is supposedly being in the lab testing phase with which ever company currently. Stick around Newbie,,we need new chatter here.

  • Artista

    Message to R
    without all the hoopla,hype or hyperbole added on to it,can you please tell me a good PROVEN dietary regime that promotes growth for REMAINING hair. It seems my back collar hair has not been growing or if it is its very slow. Maybe my diet needs to be altered. (i know i could probably go to that site you promote but if you could just give a quick answer id appreciate it) Thanks R

  • Cadillac

    First off Ht success and quality will NEVER change until a new method for growth is implemented.

    even if u have unlimited donor, transplanting hair physically from spot A to B changes the way the hair grows and looks.

    IF a new treatment through injections or some new method can cause hair to “turn back on” that might do the trick but it is still riddled with possible problems. Color, direction of growth, texture, hair quality and the list goes on.

    Artista,

    Start taking MSM. It is 100% safe and will cause existing hair to grow faster. Dont think it will cause thicker hair to any real extent and it will also cause your nails and facial hair to grow faster as well.

  • Artista

    Thanks Cadillac ,will give it a try. Hey ZZ and all this is directly from the baldingblog from today,,what do you think?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Did Intercytex Fail?
    October 16 2009, 3:33 pm PT | Posted in: Hair Cloning

    For Dr. Farjo please: Are you still working with Intercytex on trials or have you lost confidence in the project? Based on what Dr. Rassman said (he doesn’t see a breakthrough in cloning/multiplication for at least 10 years) whereas intercytex predicted a product in 2010… Do you think it’s worth putting off a hair transplant for about 2 years if not urgent for something to come out of Intercytex? Or did they fail? I am confused about this because you had said the results were good at some stage… please let me know if something changed your mind.

    The following response is by UK-based physician Dr. Bessam Farjo:
    Response by:Dr Bessam Farjo
    United Kingdom
    Back in 2007 and early 2008, Intercytex genuinely believed that good news was around the corner. This was based on the very promising results of the laboratory work. What happened was that the positive results of clinical trials were not as efficient as the lab ones. In other words although promising and exciting, not quite good enough to justify applying for a therapeutic product for the public. Since then three things have happened. Firstly the credit crunch hit the biotech sector hard in that major investors pulled out. Secondly, an unrelated Intercytex product did not come up with the goods, which meant negatively affecting the company share price. Thirdly, money aside, Intercytex agreed that the future probably lies in their ongoing lab research of making fully formed hairs from the cloned cells before taking them back to the donor. At this point, I dont know when this work will result in a clinical trial.

    At the moment you could say I am in between contracts with Intercytex as there no trials taking place. I was never employed as such by Intercytex.

    If your donor hair is good enough for now and the future then I would encourage you to go ahead with transplants if you are a suitable candidate. Hair cloning, when it becomes available, is more relevant where donor hair is a problem. Another point depending on your age, you are probably more concerned about your loss now than you will be in 10 years time. The top doctors in the field will be able to advise you of your suitability and potential future hair loss.

  • rev

    On the one hand, I applaud Farjo’s honesty (finally admitting TRC is dead).
    On the other hand, I deplore his slimy sales pitch for Hair Transplants.

  • Shooter

    Found an interview with Daphne Zohar from a few days ago. It seems to me that she is finally pretty much out of Follica. Now that she set up the company, she is concentrating more on her Venture Capital career. This is probably good news though as she would likely have no idea how to run a hair company… it just isn’t her area of study.

    Either way, no new information regarding Follica that is of any use to us.

    Anyways,

    https://news.fidelity.com/news/news.jhtml?articleid=200910140500STREETCMREALTIME_10611037&IMG=N&cat=default&ccsource=rss-default

  • Squadoosh

    Yeh sure, why would she leave a company that has the solution to baldness? Oh right, she wouldn’t, so Follica does not have a thing.

    Another one bites the dust.

  • James

    She has no use to the company… hence new CEO, I can guarantee she has a good percentage share of the company. Shes just doing her job. Read the Atricle, I read it postively, means that if anything Follica are actually commecialising, shes not needed to raise finance etc, I would say It means there off on there own two feet.

    Just my 2C

  • ZZ

    Artista,

    My thought on the balding blog piece is that it is nothing we didn’t already know. Both of the concepts (Intercytex & Adreans)that are premised on taking cells out of the scalp, then cloning and then implanting back into the scalp seem to be struggling with the same issue: It works in the lab on mice but it does not work to the same degree in humans. They can grow some new hair so they have the basic conecpt but it is weak, inconsistent & sporadic. They are missing part of the formula, a piece or 2 of the puzzle……although Aderans appears to possibly be recruiting volunteers to try a new angle in their clinical trials. Clearly, the cloning or recreation of cells from stem cells is very complicated. They know a lot about the signaling mechanisms that allow this to happen but not everything. The great news is that research on this is coming from everywhere b/c it has to do with a much larger issue: stem cells for life threatening diseases. Also, I agree with James about Follica. Daphne’s role is simply to match concepts w/ funding. The fact that they hired a CEO at this stage is very positive. Compare that to Thomas Whitfield….he is recruiting secretarial level personnel with not a mention of science anywhere…just how entreprenurial they are. So I don’t think he is driven by science just business. FYI- No word yet from Histogen on my follow up questions.

  • ZZ

    Based on investment information I have received and am evaluating, it appears that Histogen is very close to securing a funding partner that will provide additional Series A funding, fund the clinical trials and also provide some Series B funding. If this comes thru as expected, they will try to begin their Asia Clinical trial in Q1 of 2010. This would put them on track for Pan Asian approval by early 2012 and well into Phase II US trails by that time. The trial plan is 2 injections (baseline & 6 weeks) and they feel this will provide increased efficacy that will last for several years. They seem to have a solid game plan and realize that being the front runner to market will have its advantages. They have been working with Proteus Venture Partners to raise funds but have been trying to avoid venture capital in the traditional sense so that they can maintain control. Follica is apparently strictly venture funding. They acknowledge that the lawsuit has hurt their fundraising efforts but they feel that is now much more under control. They said they are submitting their manuscript summarizing the clinical data with expected publication in Nature Biotechnology in several months. No guarantees as to the results of the Asian clinical trial but they are motivated and moving fast. Sounds like we could have some idea of the trial results by next summer/fall.

  • Jacks

    News from TrichoScience..

    Dr. Jerry Shapiro to Chair TrichoScience Medical Advisory Board

    October 19, 2009 – Vancouver BC.

    TrichoScience Innovations Inc. (TrichoScience) has announced the formation of a new Medical Advisory Board under the Chairmanship of Dr. Jerry Shapiro (MD, FRCPC), TrichoScience’s Medical Director for North America.

    The Medical Advisory Board will be made up of recognized medical and scientific professionals with backgrounds in hair disorders and restoration, alopecia and hair follicle endocrinology and morphogenesis. The Advisory Board will offer on-going advice and counsel pertaining to the development of TrichoScience’s hair cell replication technology and procedure.

    In announcing the formation of the Medical Advisory Board, Dr. Shapiro said, “It is important that TrichoScience establishes on-going access to the thinking and experience of individuals who are actively involved in the most current medical practices and scientific technologies involving hair. Our Medical Advisory Board members, who will be announced over the coming months, will bring this experience to TrichoScience. They will also be professionals who are recognized for their work in this important field.”

    Dr. Shapiro, a specialist in hair disorders for the past 22 years, holds dual academic appointments as Clinical Professor and Adjunct Professor at both the University of British Columbia and New York University Schools of Medicine. He is a past President of both the North American Hair Research Society and the Canadian Society of Investigative Dermatology and President of the Canadian Hair Research Foundation.

    Dr. Shapiro has served as Chairman of the World Congress of Hair Research Societies, lectured internationally and trained dermatologists from North America, Europe, Asia and South America in the field of hair biology and hair transplantation. He began the first comprehensive basic science, medical and surgical hair training fellowship in the world and is considered one of the most experienced hair dermatologists internationally. He also runs one of the busiest hair clinics in the world.