Comments on: Cleantech Down and Dirty (Part One) http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2008/06/16/cleantech-down-and-dirty-part-one/ Business + Technology in the Exponential Economy Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:30:41 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Andy B http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2008/06/16/cleantech-down-and-dirty-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-24294 Andy B Thu, 24 Jul 2008 01:54:05 +0000 http://www.xconomy.com/?p=2774#comment-24294 I am former military and today work Federal business by day and renewable tech at night. I always marvel at the mismatch between the gears which govern these very different worlds. Appreciate Mark's comments that DC greatly under-values tech/business merit over relationships and trust. Sure there are exceptions, but this, in my experience, is the rule. I am former military and today work Federal business by day and renewable tech at night. I always marvel at the mismatch between the gears which govern these very different worlds. Appreciate Mark’s comments that DC greatly under-values tech/business merit over relationships and trust. Sure there are exceptions, but this, in my experience, is the rule.

]]> By: gsinvestor http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2008/06/16/cleantech-down-and-dirty-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-20988 gsinvestor Thu, 19 Jun 2008 19:21:50 +0000 http://www.xconomy.com/?p=2774#comment-20988 Mark, You bring up a bunch of interesting points. Yes VCs are throwing money at stuff in this sector - but then again its a pretty big potential sector. Yes VCs are making wild and crazy bets in Cleantech (e.g., letting a software programmer design electric cars for instance) but this is behavior we have come to expect from those that brought us te brilliant idea of shipping dog food to customers that buy it over the internet. That portion of the community isn't going away anytime soon. And while I have no frame of reference regarding the DC portion of your critique - it doesn't surprise me. What does surprise me (though I suppose it shouldn't) is woeful lack of vision of the VC community with regard to how they approach cleantech. Their willingness to play within framework of the establishment with regard to most things cleantech is what is most puzzling to me. The energy business is about as rigged a game as it gets - its a truly crappy game to play as an investor because its not driven by market forces. Its a game they won't win v. multi-national corporations and their cozy relationship with Washington. Where is the game-changing thought for this industry? Its as if the lessons learned from the PC/Internet revolution have been totally forgotten in the span of 24 months. Mark, You bring up a bunch of interesting points. Yes VCs are throwing money at stuff in this sector – but then again its a pretty big potential sector.

Yes VCs are making wild and crazy bets in Cleantech (e.g., letting a software programmer design electric cars for instance) but this is behavior we have come to expect from those that brought us te brilliant idea of shipping dog food to customers that buy it over the internet. That portion of the community isn’t going away anytime soon.

And while I have no frame of reference regarding the DC portion of your critique – it doesn’t surprise me.

What does surprise me (though I suppose it shouldn’t) is woeful lack of vision of the VC community with regard to how they approach cleantech. Their willingness to play within framework of the establishment with regard to most things cleantech is what is most puzzling to me. The energy business is about as rigged a game as it gets – its a truly crappy game to play as an investor because its not driven by market forces. Its a game they won’t win v. multi-national corporations and their cozy relationship with Washington.

Where is the game-changing thought for this industry? Its as if the lessons learned from the PC/Internet revolution have been totally forgotten in the span of 24 months.

]]> By: Barton Butterfield http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2008/06/16/cleantech-down-and-dirty-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-20779 Barton Butterfield Tue, 17 Jun 2008 14:16:15 +0000 http://www.xconomy.com/?p=2774#comment-20779 Finally, a voice of reason in this otherwise increasingly chaotic circus. Well done. I've been burned more than I care to share. Many of the financially painful lessons I've learned are summed up in your blog; i.e. money chasing hype, lack of understanding of scientific, industrial and manufacturing dynamics, and DC process. Barton B. Investor Finally, a voice of reason in this otherwise increasingly chaotic circus. Well done. I’ve been burned more than I care to share. Many of the financially painful lessons I’ve learned are summed up in your blog; i.e. money chasing hype, lack of understanding of scientific, industrial and manufacturing dynamics, and DC process.

Barton B.
Investor

]]> By: Neal Dikeman http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2008/06/16/cleantech-down-and-dirty-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-20746 Neal Dikeman Tue, 17 Jun 2008 00:09:56 +0000 http://www.xconomy.com/?p=2774#comment-20746 Mark, Dead on. I have hesitated to blog this area. I am on my 4th startup. Sandhill road is great at a lot of things, but taking investment bets in policy enabled, materials driven, commodity priced energy technology areas has not proved one of them. Energy and policy move differently than other areas, and Silicon Valley has been slow to respect the implications of those differences. That's why the venture returns have not been there, even though the industries are growing hand over fist. The VC community by and large has been taking too much risk in their investments. Neal Dikeman Cleantechblog.com Founder Carbonflow Mark,

Dead on.

I have hesitated to blog this area. I am on my 4th startup. Sandhill road is great at a lot of things, but taking investment bets in policy enabled, materials driven, commodity priced energy technology areas has not proved one of them.

Energy and policy move differently than other areas, and Silicon Valley has been slow to respect the implications of those differences. That’s why the venture returns have not been there, even though the industries are growing hand over fist. The VC community by and large has been taking too much risk in their investments.

Neal Dikeman
Cleantechblog.com
Founder Carbonflow

]]> By: Hank http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2008/06/16/cleantech-down-and-dirty-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-20724 Hank Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:13:49 +0000 http://www.xconomy.com/?p=2774#comment-20724 I think there is a lot of validity here, particularly concerning a lack of understanding of the way DC works. I've been very frustrated at the solar industry's complete failure on the SITC. But while there are certainly some cleantech startups that will probably never get to large scale manufacturing and IPO, that's just the VC game. They expect to lose 9 times out of 10...though, they would certainly rather 8 out of 10. I think that there's a ton of potential out there, and already a couple of success stories. Think Coskata, with their GM deal (GM certainly understands DC AND Manufacturing) or Nanosolar, as they approach both profitability and an IPO. In the end, you're probably right about the god complexes...but let's be serious...how else does anything get done in this world except by big egoed people trying to make their egos (and wallets) bigger. I, for one, am quite glad that conscience is now playing a part in large-scale investment, and hope that hedge funds see the benefits of the approach. Sometimes it's just wrong to invest in the world that will make the most money. Maybe investing in the world that you want to see, and that would be best for the world, isn't such a bad idea. Hank Green - Founder, EcoGeek.org I think there is a lot of validity here, particularly concerning a lack of understanding of the way DC works. I’ve been very frustrated at the solar industry’s complete failure on the SITC.

But while there are certainly some cleantech startups that will probably never get to large scale manufacturing and IPO, that’s just the VC game. They expect to lose 9 times out of 10…though, they would certainly rather 8 out of 10.

I think that there’s a ton of potential out there, and already a couple of success stories. Think Coskata, with their GM deal (GM certainly understands DC AND Manufacturing) or Nanosolar, as they approach both profitability and an IPO.

In the end, you’re probably right about the god complexes…but let’s be serious…how else does anything get done in this world except by big egoed people trying to make their egos (and wallets) bigger. I, for one, am quite glad that conscience is now playing a part in large-scale investment, and hope that hedge funds see the benefits of the approach.

Sometimes it’s just wrong to invest in the world that will make the most money. Maybe investing in the world that you want to see, and that would be best for the world, isn’t such a bad idea.

Hank Green
– Founder, EcoGeek.org

]]>